Re: [新聞] TotalBiscuit跟Crank的聲明
看板StarCraft (星海爭霸2 - SC2)作者claus (La Jolla)時間13年前 (2012/10/23 09:19)推噓144(145推 1噓 256→)留言402則, 74人參與討論串7/21 (看更多)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041¤tpage=203
http://tinyurl.com/9q9yvbu
TIG: jessica revealed the state of slayers in the past interview. Have you
seen it yet?
看過包嫂之前的訪談了嘛？
Mma: yes, however there are a lot of distortions in that article. But this
does not mean that the players are right and Jessica is wrong. I just wish
that people would look at this objectively and not just from one point of
view.
看過了。訪談裡很多事情不太正確，但這不代表選手們是對的而包嫂是錯的。我只是
希望人們客觀看事情而不是只憑一面之詞
TIG: you have a contract with slayers until November 6th. Can you explain us
the contract signing process?
你跟SlayerS合約到11/6，對吧？
Mma: before signing the contract, Jessica said that she made it similar to a
celebrity (actors/actresses) contract. At first, she told us that the only
way to get a sponsor was to let the potential sponsors know that ‘we have
play x, y and z’. So kimdongju (ganzi), kimsangjun (puzzle), kimdongwon
(ryung), yangjunshik (Alicia) along with myself signed the contract. As
mentioned before from Jessica, it was purely for the purpose of securing a
sponsor and she made us at ease with that statement, and the contract was
signed. Some players that signed did not even bother to read the contract and
trusted Jessica’s words.
簽約前包嫂有說他把合約弄得像演藝人員的合約。他告訴我們為了要得到贊助，要讓
贊助知道我們會有哪些選手。所以Ganzi Puzzle Ryung Alicia 和我都有簽約。有人
甚是沒看就簽了
TIG: what was the incident involving manager J?
J經理又是怎麼一回事
Mma: I think there needs to be an explanation about manager J. manager J was
an employee of corporation R, who were sponsors of Slayers. At first, he
dropped by the team house to say hello now and then, but his visits increased
in frequency and the guys at the team house got friendly with him. He was
similar to us in age and was pretty easy to talk to, so he was popular with
the younger guys as well. Boxer liked soccer so we played it a lot within the
team. Manager J started playing with us after a while and he was pretty good,
so he was our team’s ace (for soccer). When we bought soccer jerseys as a
team, we even bought one for him as well.
But a few months later, manager J left his company. Since he was jobless, he
came to our team house more often and Jessica saw fit to give him access to
the team’s facebook and twitter account since he was fluent in English and
german. He had a charming personality, so after time he eventually became in
charge of the foreign business, which was previously Cella’s work.
At the same time, Jessica said not to worry or even to ask about the
sponsors. We were contracted with corporation R at the time when we got to
know manager J, so jessica’s statement of the 2 month thing is wrong (not
sure what he’s referring to here). The incident started at this time.
J本來是R企業的員工，而R企業又是我們的贊助商。一開始他只是來我們宿舍跟我們
打招呼，後來次數越來越頻繁，而我們也跟他越來越熟。他跟我們年紀相似而且很
健談，所以還蠻受歡迎的。包哥愛踢足球，而J足球也很厲害，所以他有跟我們一起踢
，甚至還是我們的王牌。買足球隊服的時候還甚至幫他買。
幾個月後，J離職了，所以更常來我們這裡。包嫂覺得可以讓他管FB和推特，逐漸的
他開始負責了國外業務。同時，包嫂說不用擔心贊助。在我們剛認識J的時候R已經
跟我們簽約了，所以包嫂說的兩個月的事情（不知道是什麼事情）是錯的。所有的
一切都從這時開始。
TIG: could you explain more about this incident
Mma: it was right before my code s match versus alive (feb, 15th, 2012). I
heard something shocking from manager J that Jessica was forwarding my
potential personal sponsor to boxer. I couldn’t believe it. I got confused
but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks
afterwards
After much turmoil, I confessed to crank about my feelings. We talked a lot.
Crank was also sad because he couldn’t do anything for me, so it was hard on
him as well. As this went on, I got more stressed and even thought of
quitting the game. If I said this to Jessica, I thought manager J would get
the blame too so I did not talk.
After, my performance fell and I just focused on the game more since there
was nothing I could do about it. Crank suggested that I go talk to boxer as
he would know more from a player’s viewpoint. So I talked to boxer. Boxer
knew this was dangerous waters so he checked around for a few days and told
me that there was nothing of that nature (potential personal sponsor) going
on.
2012 2月中的時候，J跟我說包嫂要把我可能的個人贊助轉給包哥。我無法相信，超困惑，
但沒有人可以談這件事情。那幾個禮拜我思緒超沈重的。之後我跟Crank講了我的感受
，我們聊了很多。Crank因為他沒什麼能幫我的而很難過。之後我甚至想退休。如果我跟
包嫂講，我覺得J會被責怪所以我沒講。之後我的表現下滑了，所以我選擇專注在比賽上
，反正我也不能做什麼。Crank建議去找包哥談，所以我去找包哥。包哥知道事態的嚴重
所以他去查證了幾天，後來說沒有什麼個人贊助的事情
Jessica did not release any details about our sponsors so I had no choice but
to trust manager J regarding this matter because he was a former employee of
corporation R. at the same time, I lost faith in Jessica because of how she
treated the players and the arguments she picked with other players (on other
teams).
As the manager J incident was wrapping up, boxer and Jessica gathered all the
players and said ‘if there is anything we did wrong, it was letting manager
J come into the team house, so let’s try harder and get the team house
atmosphere up again’. However, it was already too late. There was no way to
turn back the situation because the players were already too deeply wounded.
In this environment, I lived at the team house for a few months. Crank saw
the seriousness of this situation and appealed individually to boxer and
Jessica, but nothing changed. In contrast, Jessica was saying things like ‘
the team is like this because of mma’ and pointing the blame towards me.
Then the contract annulment thing blew up.
包嫂沒有告知我們任何有關贊助商的細節，所以我沒有選擇只能去相信曾經是R企業
員工的J。同時，在看到包嫂怎麼對隊友以及和其他隊的人吵架情形之後，我也對包
嫂失去信心。在J經理事件即將處理完的時候，包哥包嫂聚集大家說「如果我們有做錯
什麼，那就是讓J近來，讓我們更加努力讓氣氛回來吧」但已經太晚了，因為隊員們
都已經受傷太深了。
我在宿舍這種環境下住了幾個月。Crank看到事情的嚴重性而直接去找包哥包嫂反應
，但什麼都沒改變。相對的，包嫂都說是因為我而造成的，都在怪我。後來取消合約
的事情發生了
TIG: by contract annulment, you mean the contract between the team and
players?
Mma: yes, Jessica said in her interview that there was no splitting of the
prizes from individual events but told us to split the money because of ‘
coach ryu’s wages and player maintenance funds’ at the time, cella received
some portion of player’s foreign prize winnings (less than ~$1000 USD).
Jessica said to give a portion of the winnings from foreign events. So as
agreed on the contract, we sent a portion of the winnings to an account
Jessica provided. After this, nothing changed still.
Boxer and Jessica almost never came to the practice room and we were managed
by the coaches only. We still had to take public transportation to get to and
from the venues and the team house. Even in the winter, we had to commute
between gimpo and mokdong (about 50~85min by bus/subway) and we realized that
this affected our conditions for the matches that we had to play that day.
After discussing this with the players, we also noticed that there were no
differences between the contracted players and the non-contract players and
came to a conclusion that this would not be good for the team, so we decided
to bring up the issue to boxer and Jessica.
包嫂在訪談裡說他沒有從比賽抽成，但要我們分一些獎金出來負擔Ryu教練以及球隊運作
基金，當時Cella有拿到一些國外比賽的獎金（少於1000美金）。包嫂說要分一部份
獎金出來，所以根據合約，我們將一部份獎金轉到一個包嫂提供的帳戶。
包哥包嫂幾乎很少來練習室，我們都是教練在管的。我們還是要搭大眾運輸。就算是
冬天也要花50-85分鐘搭公車/地鐵去比賽會場，而我們也知道這會影響我們當天的比賽
手感。另外在隊員間討論之後，我們注意到有簽約跟沒簽約的隊員沒有什麼待遇上的差別
，我們覺得這對戰隊不好，所以向包哥包嫂反應。
The reply that came back was ‘we cant give the car to cella’ and ‘coach
ryu has no license, so he can’t drive at all’. Crank couldn’t stand this,
so he volunteered to drive and drove the players to the gomtv studios. Crank
was part of the motorized military before, so he had plenty of driving
experience.
There was no change and the players’ discontent grew. I asked coach ryu if
he had received any wages and he told me that he did not receive anything
until February of 2012. Furthermore, when cella accompanied me to mlg in the
states, he had to pay for the roaming charges on his cell phone even though
Jessica promised to pay for it. Coach ryu asked Jessica about the promised
wages and was told that ‘we don’t collect money from the players, you go
collect it for yourself’.
About an hour after Jessica told ryu the aforementioned statement, she called
me and crank to her house. Boxer and Jessica told me everything and me and
crank talked of the discontent that we had. At the end, Jessica said that ‘
lets nullify the contract right now’ and asked if we wanted to rip our
contracts, but I didn’t want to. We were returned the money that we paid
after a week.
我們得到的回應是「我們不能把車給Cella」，「Ryu教練沒有駕照」Crank受不了，所以
自願充當司機。Crank當兵時有充分的駕駛經驗。但什麼都沒有改變，不滿也日益高漲。
我問Ryu教練他有沒有收到任何薪資，而他告訴我直到2012 2月前都沒有收到。Cella陪我
MLG的時候，包嫂有答應要幫付手機漫遊的錢，但後來還是Cella自己付。當Ryu教練去問
包嫂有關薪水的事情的時候，包嫂說「我們不向隊員要錢，你自己去要」
在跟Ryu講了那些之後的一個小時，他把我跟Crank叫到他家。我們跟包哥包嫂把所有事情
都講開了。最後，包嫂說，我們現在把合約取消掉，問我們要不要取消，但我不想。一
個禮拜後我們拿回了之前我們付的錢。
TIG: this contrasts with jessica’s statement that a contract was remaining.
When did you verify this?
Mma: we trusted Jessica. But this was our mistake. After Jessica said ‘lets
rip the contracts’, she gathered all the players and said ‘I wont hold you
back if you want to leave the team’.
At this time, the players that wanted to go to a foreign team (ganzi, taeja)
had their contracts nullified. After a few days, we asked if the contract was
really nullified. However, Jessica said that the contract was only nullified
for those that wanted to leave the team on that day only. After hearing this,
the players were very disappointed at Jessica and I was hurt by jessica’s
duplicity.
*note by editor here says taeja was not in a contract with slayers.
我們相信包嫂，但那是我們的失誤。在包嫂說要把合約取消掉後，他召集了所以隊員
，然後說如果我們想離隊他不會阻止。當時想去國外戰隊的Ganzi Taeja順利離開了。
幾天後我們去問我們的合約是否真的取消了，但包嫂說只有當天表示要離隊的人合約
才被取消掉。在聽到這之後，我們對包嫂非常失望，我被包嫂的兩面個性傷得很重
TIG: do you have anything to say about your relegation to B-team in july?
Mma: it was right before the GSTL match. After the aforementioned events, I
needed to clear my mind so I went out on Saturday. I cleared my mind and
returned. the game was coming up, so the only thing I was thinking was about
winning. Jessica stated that I did not return to the team house, but this is
false. I did all my tasks, then left on Saturday night and returned on Sunday
morning.
After returning, ryung told me what boxer said: ‘mma is like a cancer cell,
so I have to quarantine you from him’. After hearing this, I lost all
passion for preparing for the GSTL and the team. The thought that ran through
my mind was ‘im trying so hard for my team, but this is what they think of me
’ and I despaired.
在那些事情之後，我要讓思緒清楚點，所以我禮拜六出去了。我沈澱了思緒然後回去了
。及將要比GSTL了，我腦裡也只想要贏。包嫂說我沒有回宿舍但這是假的。我做了我
的工作，然後禮拜六晚上離開，禮拜天早上救回去了。回去之後，Ryung告訴我說包哥說
「MMA就像個癌細胞，所以我需要把你從他身邊隔離」聽到這之後，我喪失所以為GSTL
或戰隊拼戰的熱誠。一想到我這麼拼命為戰隊但他們這樣想我讓我很絕望
TIG: what kind of communication went between you and boxer?
Mma: boxer told me that I was relegated to the b-team so I should go home. I
wondered why I got relegated and did not understand. I wish boxer and Jessica
would have told me what I did wrong, but there was no communication between
us and I was relegated.
After hearing this from ryung, I packed my bags and told boxer ‘im leaving
so you don’t need to relegate me’. Boxer said that I was under a contract
so I couldn’t leave on my free will. This made my emotions run high and I
told him that this is a slavery contract.
About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract
between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and
me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament
winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do
things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article
regarding relegation came out.
包哥跟我講我被放到二軍然後該回家。我希望包哥包嫂可以告訴我我做錯了什麼而被
放到二軍，但沒有任何溝通。我打包然後跟包哥說我要離開了所以你們不用下放我。
包哥說我仍然有合約所以不能離開，這時候情緒使然讓我說了奴隸合約的事情。
關於這，我非常抱歉。那個奴隸合約是我跟經理階層之間的合約，跟戰隊無關，所以
就算我轉隊，我還是要抽成給包嫂。大約十分鐘寂靜之後，包哥說「我們照我們的方式
做事」然後對談就結束了。隔天被下放的消息就出來了
TIG: after the article came out, Jessica came to the interview for code a
(july 25th)
Mma: I met with Jessica and asked ‘how could you write an article like this’
. i asked ‘did I even ask for a transfer to a foreign team?’ and the reply
that came back was ‘I’ll rewrite the article if you want’. I was
flabbergasted. She then explained me the terms of the ‘slavery contract’. ‘
this is nothing. In the entertainment industry, the standard for a contract
is 5 or 10 years’
I wondered the relevance of bringing up terms of contracts in the
entertainment industry. After, Jessica said that she will not receive any
statements about the relegation and cut off questions from reporters. So the
interview went out, but it was only about the game itself. I had a little bit
to say at the end about my current situation and feelings to the fans.
後來Code A訪談包嫂有來，我遇到包嫂問他說他怎麼可以寫那樣的文章呢。我問包嫂
「我有要求轉到外國戰隊嗎」，我得到的回應是「如果你要我可以重寫那篇文章」我
超氣的。他向我解釋「奴隸合約」。在演藝界，制式合約大多五年或十年。
TIG: you told Jessica you wanted to leave twice
Mma: yes, that’s right. The first time was when everyone at the team house
was having a hard time because of the incident with manager J and I could not
stand the management badmouthing me so I did not want to be a part of the
team anymore. However there were those that helped me out a lot before and I
was thankful, so I did not tell them of the current events (I think he’s
referring to manager/coaches of other teams). instead, I said I wanted a
transfer to a foreign team. Shortly afterwards, talks began with slayers and
a foreign team (TL). During this, a lot of facts were hidden from me (by
Jessica) so my mistrust grew even more. So I said I wanted to leave the team
for a second time
我曾經兩次跟包嫂說我要離開。第一次是因為J事件而責怪責任到我身上的時候。但當
時還是有人幫助我很多，我非常感謝，所以我沒有跟管理階層的人講到實際發生的事情
，而是講說我想換到國外戰隊。在這之後戰隊跟TL有一些對談。過程中包嫂對我隱瞞了
很多事情，所以我的不信任感增加更多。這時是我第二次說想離隊
TIG: Jessica said that when you went to foreign events, no one (other
Koreans) said hello to you and ostracized you while badmouthing Jessica. Is
this true?
Mma: I went to more foreign events than any other members of my team. So I
was able to hear bad rumors of Jessica from other people. Although I heard
these, I respected her so I was very objective about them. I told Jessica of
these, and Jessica said wistfully that she would like to become friendly with
other teams as well.
Even after this, there was no change and Jessica even said ‘this is how we
don’t get ignored by other teams’. I said that there were other methods of
going about this and she said that ‘you have to be vocal to be heard’.
Afterwards, I did not tell Jessica what other people thought of her.
我參加最多國外比賽，所以我有聽到一些包嫂不好的謠言。因為我還是非常尊敬包嫂，
所以我把聽到的都跟包嫂講。包嫂跟我說他也希望可以跟其他戰隊的人友好。在這之後
也沒改變，包嫂甚至說「這樣我們才不會被其他隊漠視」（我猜是網路上吵架的事）。
我說應該有其他方法，但包嫂說你必須大聲講話才能被聽到。在這之後我再也沒跟包嫂
講其他人怎麼看他的事情了
TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer
Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An
incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months
left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd
transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want
to go to.
After a month, I was able to verify that in some negotiations, my transfer
fee was zero. This change in behavior in Jessica is what ultimately made
boxer move to SKT1.
我後來發現儘管我還有三個月合約在身，在對談中他們還是要求了大筆轉隊費。因為
無理的轉隊費，對談結束了。他們有向一些我壓根沒有想去的戰隊詢問接收我的可能
姓。一個月後，我得知在一些對談中我的轉隊費是零。包嫂的這些改變是最後導致
包哥回SKT1的原因
TIG: in april, boxer stated that he stopped playing because of the players.
What do you think of this statement
Mma: I think the biggest reason why boxer stopped playing is because of
jessica’s constant interference in and out of the game. Boxer likes to focus
and practice. Although he gets angry after a loss, he endures it and
continues playing. In situations like this, calls kept coming about
unimportant stuff and he sometimes complained that he couldn’t practice
because of Jessica.
Because of this, the atmosphere in the team house fell. Jessica likes to read
various community sites and berated boxer by saying things like ‘why did you
do this’, ‘why didn’t you use this strategy’. Overall, the meddling was
pretty severe.
Boxer sometimes said that he wanted to quit gaming because of all the
meddling. Because of this, boxer and Jessica argued a lot. During this time
period, an article was published saying that boxer’s shoulder conditions
were not good. Although his shoulders were not very good from previous times,
I think the main reason for boxer’s quitting as a player is because of
Jessica.
四月的時候，包哥說因為隊員的原因而暫時停止出賽。但我覺得最大的原因是因為包嫂
持續的干預比賽內外的事情。包哥喜歡專注於練習，雖然比賽輸了會很生氣，但他會去
接受並且繼續練習。在這樣的情況下，包嫂會一直打來講一些有的沒有的，包哥有時候
會抱怨因為包嫂的原因而無法練習
因為這樣，宿舍氣氛變的很糟。包嫂愛看很多社群網站，然後對包哥說「你為什麼這樣
做，為什麼不用這個戰術」總而言之，干預的情形很嚴重。包哥甚是有說過因為這些干
預甚至想直接退休。因為這樣，包哥包嫂常常吵架。這期間，有報導說包哥肩膀情形不
太好。雖然他肩膀從前就不太好，但我覺得包哥退休的主要原因是因為包嫂
From a player’s perspective, the interview with Jessica about the team’s
disbanding seems to be directed wholly at the players. She fails to
acknowledge that she had faults with her managerial skills and tries to blame
all of it on us. Therefore, boxer did not lose his will to play because of us.
從隊員角度來看，包嫂有關戰隊解散的訪談全部都在責怪隊員，他沒有承認他經營
能力上的失誤。包哥並不是因為我們才喪失動力的
TIG: Jessica said that mma has no desire to move to a kespa team or play in
proleague
包嫂說你沒有興趣轉到kespa?
Mma: when I was doing well, Jessica said that when slayers could negotiate
with kespa teams in the future, she would sell me to SKT1 for a large amount
of money. She said that skt1 is the best terran team and wished that I would
do better than fantasy (when he transfers).
Before I started playing sc2, I was a practice student in skt1. I was in poor
health there. When I played more than 25 games a day, my index finger would
start to get paralyzed and my whole hand would hurt. So I only played about
20 games and I spent the rest of the time watching replays and VODS, as well
as researching. Back then, the proleague system was a place where I couldn’t
do well physically. Somehow, this statement got blown out of proportion and I
do not understand this.
在我表現還好的時候時，包嫂有說過當SlayerS可以跟kespa談的時候，他會用高價把我
賣給SKT1。他說那是人族最好的戰隊，希望我可以比太子還出色
在我打SC2之前，我曾經是skt1的練習生。那時我健康情形不好，如果一天打超過25場
比賽，我食指會麻痺整個手會痛。所以我一天大概幾打個20場然後剩下時間都在看replay
或vod以及想戰術。但不知怎麼搞的這種說法竟然被扭曲成那樣，我無法理解
TIG: anything else you want to say?
Mma: I want to thank boxer and Jessica for making me a famous player as well
as giving me an opportunity in slayers. However, the events that occurred up
until now have affected the team in a very bad way and I have also gotten
hurt. I want to apologize to boxer and Jessica about these events.
However, I want to state that jessica’s interview in many ways were
distorted and a lot of players received unnecessary blame for it. That’s why
they agreed to interviews. I apologize for making the fans worry so much. I
would also like to apologize for any wrongdoings done by the plays, on behalf
of the players. Again, I am very sorry.
我要謝謝包哥包嫂讓我成名以及給我機會在SlayerS表現。但是所發生的事情嚴重的影響
要戰隊，我也受傷了。針對這些事情我向包哥包嫂表達歉意。
但是，我要表明包嫂訪談中很多地方都被扭曲，很多隊員承擔了不關的指責，所以他們
才會出來接受訪談。我讓粉絲擔心這麼多也方常抱歉。我也代表隊員們，對於他們可能
做出的不太好的事情道歉。再次的，我非常抱歉。
original article:
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677
※ 引述《kira925 (1 2 3 4 疾風炭)》之銘言：
: 配宵夜的東西來了
: TIG MMA採訪
: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677
: 對不起，這是韓文T_T
: 連TL論壇都在求翻譯
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 111.240.134.218
推
10/23 09:24, , 1F
10/23 09:24, 1F
推
10/23 09:25, , 2F
10/23 09:25, 2F
推
10/23 09:25, , 3F
10/23 09:25, 3F
推
10/23 09:25, , 4F
10/23 09:25, 4F
推
10/23 09:26, , 5F
10/23 09:26, 5F
→
10/23 09:26, , 6F
10/23 09:26, 6F
推
10/23 09:27, , 7F
10/23 09:27, 7F
推
10/23 09:28, , 8F
10/23 09:28, 8F
→
10/23 09:28, , 9F
10/23 09:28, 9F
→
10/23 09:28, , 10F
10/23 09:28, 10F
推
10/23 09:29, , 11F
10/23 09:29, 11F
→
10/23 09:29, , 12F
10/23 09:29, 12F
推
10/23 09:29, , 13F
10/23 09:29, 13F
推
10/23 09:30, , 14F
10/23 09:30, 14F
推
10/23 09:30, , 15F
10/23 09:30, 15F
→
10/23 09:31, , 16F
10/23 09:31, 16F
推
10/23 09:32, , 17F
10/23 09:32, 17F
→
10/23 09:32, , 18F
10/23 09:32, 18F
推
10/23 09:32, , 19F
10/23 09:32, 19F
推
10/23 09:32, , 20F
10/23 09:32, 20F
→
10/23 09:33, , 21F
10/23 09:33, 21F
推
10/23 09:33, , 22F
10/23 09:33, 22F
→
10/23 09:33, , 23F
10/23 09:33, 23F
→
10/23 09:34, , 24F
10/23 09:34, 24F
→
10/23 09:34, , 25F
10/23 09:34, 25F
推
10/23 09:34, , 26F
10/23 09:34, 26F
→
10/23 09:34, , 27F
10/23 09:34, 27F
→
10/23 09:34, , 28F
10/23 09:34, 28F
推
10/23 09:34, , 29F
10/23 09:34, 29F
推
10/23 09:35, , 30F
10/23 09:35, 30F
→
10/23 09:35, , 31F
10/23 09:35, 31F
→
10/23 09:36, , 32F
10/23 09:36, 32F
→
10/23 09:36, , 33F
10/23 09:36, 33F
推
10/23 09:36, , 34F
10/23 09:36, 34F
推
10/23 09:36, , 35F
10/23 09:36, 35F
→
10/23 09:36, , 36F
10/23 09:36, 36F
→
10/23 09:37, , 37F
10/23 09:37, 37F
→
10/23 09:37, , 38F
10/23 09:37, 38F
→
10/23 09:37, , 39F
10/23 09:37, 39F
還有 323 則推文
還有 1 段內文
→
10/23 11:39, , 363F
10/23 11:39, 363F
→
10/23 11:40, , 364F
10/23 11:40, 364F
推
10/23 11:42, , 365F
10/23 11:42, 365F
→
10/23 11:42, , 366F
10/23 11:42, 366F
→
10/23 11:42, , 367F
10/23 11:42, 367F
→
10/23 11:45, , 368F
10/23 11:45, 368F
推
10/23 11:45, , 369F
10/23 11:45, 369F
→
10/23 11:46, , 370F
10/23 11:46, 370F
推
10/23 11:48, , 371F
10/23 11:48, 371F
→
10/23 11:48, , 372F
10/23 11:48, 372F
→
10/23 11:50, , 373F
10/23 11:50, 373F
推
10/23 11:50, , 374F
10/23 11:50, 374F
→
10/23 11:51, , 375F
10/23 11:51, 375F
→
10/23 11:51, , 376F
10/23 11:51, 376F
→
10/23 11:53, , 377F
10/23 11:53, 377F
→
10/23 11:53, , 378F
10/23 11:53, 378F
→
10/23 11:54, , 379F
10/23 11:54, 379F
推
10/23 12:37, , 380F
10/23 12:37, 380F
推
10/23 12:59, , 381F
10/23 12:59, 381F
推
10/23 13:09, , 382F
10/23 13:09, 382F
→
10/23 13:33, , 383F
10/23 13:33, 383F
推
10/23 13:35, , 384F
10/23 13:35, 384F
推
10/23 13:35, , 385F
10/23 13:35, 385F
推
10/23 14:06, , 386F
10/23 14:06, 386F
推
10/23 14:30, , 387F
10/23 14:30, 387F
噓
10/23 15:33, , 388F
10/23 15:33, 388F
→
10/23 15:33, , 389F
10/23 15:33, 389F
推
10/23 15:41, , 390F
10/23 15:41, 390F
推
10/23 15:41, , 391F
10/23 15:41, 391F
→
10/23 15:52, , 392F
10/23 15:52, 392F
推
10/23 16:12, , 393F
10/23 16:12, 393F
→
10/23 16:13, , 394F
10/23 16:13, 394F
推
10/23 17:53, , 395F
10/23 17:53, 395F
推
10/23 18:31, , 396F
10/23 18:31, 396F
推
10/23 19:17, , 397F
10/23 19:17, 397F
推
10/23 19:38, , 398F
10/23 19:38, 398F
推
10/23 19:47, , 399F
10/23 19:47, 399F
推
10/23 21:36, , 400F
10/23 21:36, 400F
推
10/23 22:28, , 401F
10/23 22:28, 401F
推
10/23 23:04, , 402F
10/23 23:04, 402F
討論串 (同標題文章)
StarCraft 近期熱門文章
PTT遊戲區 即時熱門文章
19
22
25
75