PTT遊戲區 / WOW (魔獸世界)

[閒聊] 聖坦的屬性選擇順序

看板WOW (魔獸世界)作者時間13年前 (2012/11/01 02:54), 編輯推噓12(12推 0噓 38→)
留言50則, 10人參與, 最新討論串1/3 (看更多)
剛剛在翻EJ的坦聖文章，把目前聖坦的順序列如下 命中滿 > 熟練硬上限(15%)滿 > 精通 = 加速 > 免傷 主要討論是 精通與加速比起來 精通 - 在減傷稍好且在換坦場合很棒 加速 - 提供良好的傷害輸出 兩者在平緩承受傷害曲線上均十分良好 免傷屬性 - 減傷部分在精通與加速之間，但沒有額外的好處，並且會有爆血的可能 之前認為的免傷與控傷派的衝突在現在的gear ilv下沒這麼大 只是在命熟滿後，免傷是較不佳的屬性 附上原文 Prioritization and Overview Hit (to cap) > Expertise (to hard cap) > Mastery = Haste > Avoidance This is your prioritization table. While Avoidance is last, once Hit and Exp are capped it is much closer in value than we had previously thought. If you are currently using a piece of gear with two good stats (Hit/Exp/Mastery/Haste) and get a piece of gear half a tier higher with an Avoidance stat, Avoidance is useful enough that the new gear is still an upgrade (though you should still reforge the Avoidance to something better). - Hit is our best stat for both DPS and Survivability because nothing beats it for steady HoPo generation (for survivability) or for making all our attacks land (for DPS). - Expertise is our next best stat. It does everything Hit does, except it does not affect J, making it a little worse but still better than everything else. - Mastery vs Haste, the only real decision. You can pick one or the other, or take some of each. Mastery is very slightly better at reducing damage taken and really shines in tank swaps, while Haste will significantly improve your DPS done. They are equally good at smoothing damage taken which is what matters most. - Avoidance, once you've capped Hit and Exp, isn't as bad as we had thought. Its biggest weakness was spikey damage taken, but capping Hit and Exp fixes most of that. It is between Haste and Mastery in terms of reducing damage taken but has no particular benefit like Haste or Mastery, and instead has very slightly more variability in damage taken which is why it is a step down. - Mixing and matching Avoidance and Mitigation stats used to be considered a no-no because they tend to reduce each other's value. This is still true, but its a relatively minor issue at current gear levels and is covered by the concept of "Avoidance isn't that bad, but is worse than the other stats". 歡迎討論! 給end的人:控制流>減傷流 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 118.160.227.111
推
11/01 02:58, , 1F
我比較想知道為什麼前兩篇翻的都刪掉了= =
11/01 02:58, 1F
推
11/01 03:07, , 2F
加速是影響聖能獲得的速度，間接影公正之盾的覆蓋率吧
11/01 03:07, 2F
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11/01 03:08, , 3F
公正之盾的覆蓋率＝坦聖現在主要的物理減傷
11/01 03:08, 3F
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11/01 03:08, , 4F
也是之所以加速的權重會大於閃招的原因
11/01 03:08, 4F
推
11/01 03:09, , 5F
不建議裝等485以下的坦把熟練撐到15%。太傷
11/01 03:09, 5F
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11/01 03:10, , 6F
命7.5 熟15 應該是建立在496滿的前提下
11/01 03:10, 6F
Best practices in Paladin tanking, for both maximizing survivability and dps is to stack Expertise to "hard cap" or 15% to completely eliminate Boss Dodge and Parry. 這邊沒講到對ilv的需求，可以說明一下為什麼這樣說嗎？
推
11/01 03:14, , 7F
熟練堆到15%大約是裝等多少以上的需求?
11/01 03:14, 7F
推
11/01 03:24, , 8F
要求15%是為了確保技能打中然後穩定的聖能收入吧
11/01 03:24, 8F
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11/01 03:24, , 9F
穩定的聖能收入=提高公盾覆蓋率=提高生存率
11/01 03:24, 9F
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11/01 03:24, , 10F
比堆閃招的好
11/01 03:24, 10F
推
11/01 03:25, , 11F
你要命中+熟練滿的話 總共需要2550+5100點屬性
11/01 03:25, 11F
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11/01 03:25, , 12F
裝備等級低的時候 真的很傷
11/01 03:25, 12F
不了解為啥這會"傷"，如果一個屬性絕對性的比較好， 那投入其中沒有降低任何能力才對，會說傷的原因是還是把它當成仇恨屬性嗎？ → rkcity:我比較好奇EJ裡面的招/閃比例.. parry/dodge ratio: 3.597 11/01 03:26
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11/01 03:27, , 13F
有大大可以解釋一下嗎?
11/01 03:27, 13F
應該是跟邊際遞減(DR)比例有關，裡面提到招架的DR曲線比閃躲的DR曲線"kinder" ※ 編輯: sardiyal 來自: 118.160.227.111 (11/01 03:45)
推
11/01 03:49, , 14F
我比較想問這樣的話要 熟練 熟練精通 熟練耐比較好
11/01 03:49, 14F
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11/01 03:49, , 15F
還是熟練精通 精通 精通耐比較好??
11/01 03:49, 15F
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11/01 03:51, , 16F
命熟滿並不會多傷
11/01 03:51, 16F
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11/01 03:51, , 17F
只考慮副屬性的話(耐力的使用要看自己跟補的感覺)，寶石
11/01 03:51, 17F
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11/01 03:52, , 18F
上能提供的總副屬性加成是一樣的，所以熟練精通加速缺啥
11/01 03:52, 18F
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11/01 03:52, , 19F
放啥應該是最好的選擇了，只是現在版本剛開沒多久，應該
11/01 03:52, 19F
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11/01 03:52, , 20F
大部分還是會放紫綠藍多撐點耐力比較穩吧
11/01 03:52, 20F
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11/01 03:54, , 21F
命熟是防禦屬性，除非像隔壁棚的有miss跟沒miss沒兩樣
11/01 03:54, 21F
推
11/01 04:01, , 22F
只是重點是現在的裝熟練普遍都還無法硬上限吧
11/01 04:01, 22F
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11/01 04:01, , 23F
插熟練 熟練精通 熟練耐會好點?
11/01 04:01, 23F
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11/01 04:04, , 24F
可以15%上限，用裝備的閃招重鑄就好了
11/01 04:04, 24F
推
11/01 04:07, , 25F
當然這一切是建立在耐足夠的前提，何謂足夠就看補師配合
11/01 04:07, 25F
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11/01 04:08, , 26F
有些補不在意，有些在意血少就會慌會影響表現
11/01 04:08, 26F
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11/01 04:08, , 27F
所以多少耐才夠，要跟配合的補師多做溝通
11/01 04:08, 27F
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11/01 04:09, , 28F
看了EJ才發現原來身上的dd裝比坦裝還適合坦用...
11/01 04:09, 28F
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11/01 04:10, , 29F
只要沒致命就是坦裝 (鎧甲DD暴動)
11/01 04:10, 29F
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11/01 04:10, , 30F
dd裝只要不要有致命就是好坦裝，比免傷裝還好
11/01 04:10, 30F
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11/01 04:12, , 31F
只要沒致命，就可以當坦裝
11/01 04:12, 31F
推
11/01 04:13, , 32F
暴雪再次把聖騎搞得莫名其妙，令人想起拿法傷武的防騎
11/01 04:13, 32F
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11/01 04:14, , 33F
格檔變成第二次判定導致閃招權重變低
11/01 04:14, 33F
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11/01 04:14, , 34F
其實戰跟熊也差不多...
11/01 04:14, 34F
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11/01 04:15, , 35F
看來6.0會乾脆移除坦屬性了 (喂
11/01 04:15, 35F
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11/01 04:24, , 36F
哈哈 現在的問題是他們想做純dd裝就一定得放致命
11/01 04:24, 36F
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11/01 04:25, , 37F
但是對DD來說致命又很差，所以等於是聖坦要跟DD競爭裝備
11/01 04:25, 37F
推
11/01 10:50, , 38F
聖坦為啥莫名其妙了..現在各坦的配裝其實很接近啊…
11/01 10:50, 38F
推
11/01 12:23, , 39F
其他坦我不知道，但弄成閃招排最後感覺有點莫名其妙
11/01 12:23, 39F
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11/01 12:26, , 40F
世界進度前50的防騎眾,約10%滿熟練15%,20%熟練>12%
11/01 12:26, 40F
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11/01 12:27, , 41F
所以滿熟練並不是最優先選項,依團隊狀況和操作習慣
11/01 12:27, 41F
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11/01 12:28, , 42F
樓上提出的事實並不能"否定"熟練滿優先的理由
11/01 12:28, 42F
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11/01 12:28, , 43F
原則上命熟各7.5%,基本上就差不多了
11/01 12:28, 43F
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11/01 12:32, , 44F
若滿熟練15%最優先,高端防騎滿熟練的比例不會如此低
11/01 12:32, 44F
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11/01 12:35, , 45F
順道考慮坦/dd共用部位的彈性,不必強求15%滿熟練
11/01 12:35, 45F
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11/01 12:51, , 46F
實際上是因為熟練15%其實沒那麼容易吧
11/01 12:51, 46F
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11/01 12:52, , 47F
更何況這個結論是前幾個禮拜才出來 收裝不一定跟得上
11/01 12:52, 47F
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11/01 12:55, , 48F
這結論在90級開放前就出來了
11/01 12:55, 48F
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11/01 12:56, , 49F
90開放前是分流派 那時還沒有各方面都贏的
11/01 12:56, 49F
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11/01 23:41, , 50F
分流派是什麼？ Theck在9月底就已經有這結論了不是嗎？
11/01 23:41, 50F
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