Re: [問題] Forge, 裂開 ?

看板Minecraft (當個創世神)作者pupudice (光頭葛格不能亡)時間9月前 (2023/07/14 08:51)推噓5(5推 0噓 6→)

留言11則, 6人參與討論串2/2 (看更多)

https://neoforged.net/news/theproject/ What has happened here? As of July 12th 2023, the discord formerly known as “Forgecord” was rebranded to a new project - NeoForged. NeoForged is a fork of MinecraftForge. Almost all of the original team has joined the new team, with one obvious exception, LexManos (hereby referred to as Lex). This news post will attempt to explain the circumstances leading to this drastic action. It presents the perspective of the new team however, and specifically, my (cpw) perspective and motivations. Why did this happen? Firstly, I want to be clear. Attributing this to a single event is to attribute death by a thousand cuts to a single cut. After the latest difficulties in the Minecraft Forge discord, I wanted to understand why Curle felt she needed to resign from the position Lex put her in - namely, leader of the project. She had done an amazing job of organizing the team prior to the promotion to leader, and it was surprising to me that she felt the need to leave so shortly after. The discussion with her opened my eyes to the fact that there had been ongoing difficulties with the team she had spent so much time to build, and Lex was the root of the problem. I want to be clear, Lex has been a problem in the modding community for many, many years. Almost every veteran minecraft modder has had a negative interaction with him over the past 12 years. I have, when able to, tried to steer people to not abandon Forge just because of Lex - defending him in many a private conversation with a frustrated modder who’d just been called a “ Cunt” for 1,000th time by Lex, or banned from our online spaces for a trivial transgression like discussing Fabric or coremods. In evaluating the situation I was in, it quickly became clear I could take one of three actions: 1. Do nothing. If I did nothing, I believe we would be watching the slow disintegration of the Forge project. This is why we recruited Curle in the first place - to try and help build a useful team, that would enable Lex to step back from the limelight and community management aspects. Her departure would cement that the Forge team was too toxic to continue to function in a viable capacity, in my opinion. We would have seen more public disputes and abuse, with more modders and community leaders becoming increasingly frustrated. 2. Babysit Lex. In effect, this is what I have been doing, to a more or lesser extent, for the past 10 years. He would not see it that way, but I have been defending Lex to all comers for many many years. I truly thought that if he could stop being so toxic online, we would become successful. 3. Do what we have done - fork the project and start afresh. Note that due to personal physical and mental health issues, I was not well enough to continue with 2 and have rather withdrawn from the community - effectively 1 - because I needed to preserve my health. Lex has argued repeatedly that I had the power to rein him in, but that’s an accident of history and not something that I believe should have been necessary between two adult friends, and if it had killed me - a non-zero likelihood (I am not a young man) - then there would have been no one left anyway. We have forked Yes, we have forked the project. Curle and I both agreed this was the best decision for the future of the project and more importantly for the community - I never wanted the money or the power that comes with being leader and we have rather started the process of putting together a simple consitution for the project moving forward, which we will be sharing as time allows. We have had to fork - because many of the core assets are licensed by Lex’s company Forge LLC. It is better for us to fork and rebrand. We will be removing those assets that are part of the MinecraftForge project, as we develop our own brand and styling. Note that this is not a hard fork yet. We remain compatible with existing Forge for the present time. Whether we break that compatilibity in the future is one of many topics of discussion. Some want us to quickly clean up the technical debt, others feel that we should take a more measured approach to that effort. Suffice to say, both opinions have some merit and we encourage discussion and adult debate about what measures are appropriate on what timescales. Why did this seem so rushed? We had been in planning and discussion for around 9 days - and had a private discord setup where we could discuss the future direction and do work on initial setup and planning. This was well underway when I received the shock of my life yesterday morning - for who but Lex themselves was in our private discord, reading the backlog. The reasons for this are still unclear, and we’ ll likely never know the full extent of what happened, but suffice to say, the cat was definitely out of the bag. Faced with an unknown quantity, we felt that we had to act to quickly preserve the community, rather than risk all that has been built, especially in the past two years. Thus we launched our rebrand, before we were truly ready, but it was in effort to preserve the community. Why did you take the discord? The discord was always mine. I set it up very early on in discord’s life, originally as an experiment, but when it became clear that discord was getting popular, I suggested to Lex that we transition it to our new online space. At first it was secondary to #minecraftforge on esper.net IRC, but over time, it became the primary community hub. Lex was never interested in taking ownership of the server, even though I offered it several times. So it is my asset, and as my asset, I felt it best to rebrand it. What happens now? Things will settle as time passes. We should have our governance documents soon - we have good plans for a fresh approach to governing the project. We have had many many offers of support and help from many many community members, including corporations that run large hosting providers, distribution platforms and more. We will be setting up an opencollective for those that wish to financially support the project. That financial support will be funneled directly back into the project - we hope to be able to help our many contributors with a little pocket money for their kind donations of time. My opinion and perspective I want to be clear, this is my opinion and perspective. Others will have their own opinions, and they may differ in the details, but I believe this is the best possible future for the project as a whole. I hope curle will write her perspective on the matter for publishing here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Forge怎麼了? 從2023年7月12日, discord "Forgecord"正式更名為"NeoForged" NeoForged 身為 MinecraftForge的一個分叉(i. forked, 複製一個儲存庫並有完全的讀寫能力, 或是一個基於現有項目的分支/版本),所有原始成員皆加入了新的團隊, 除了 LexManos (以下將稱之為 "Lex") 以下將解釋這件事情的起承轉合, 代表著新團隊的全體人員特別是我(cpw), 的觀點及動機為何會發生這種事情? 首先我想說清楚冰凍三尺非一日之寒在最近一些在MinecraftForge Discord遇到的的問題上我想了解為何Curle選擇離開Lex 所指定給他的位置 - 專案統籌在她被晉升之前一切都做得非常好, 尤其在團隊管理方面。而讓我驚訝的是她晉升後選擇在如此短的時間內辭去崗位。在與她聊過後她讓我了解Lex幾乎是她花許多時間嘗試建立的團隊的問題根源我直白地說, Lex在這麼多年裡一直是Modding社區的一個問題。在過去的12年裡, 幾乎每個資深的Modder都曾與他有過負面的交流而我必須在當我可以的時候說服人們不要因此放棄Forge 還得在與許多Modder的私人聊天中替Lex說話因為他們被一些微不足道的原因Ban掉, 例如討論Fabric(i. 另一個Mod Loader)或是Coremods(i. 原版改裝, 不使用Forge\ Fabric...等API) 我在這種情況中想出了三種解決方法: 1.什麼也不做。如果我什麼也不做那我相信Forge會逐漸瓦解, 這就是我們聘請Curle的首要原因 - 建立一個良好交流的團隊以讓Lex遠離社群管理以及鎂光燈下但是她的離職足以證明江山易改本性難移, 而Forge團隊已經無法正常運作在我的觀點來看我們將會看到更多的公共侮辱及人身攻擊 2.替Lex擦屁股。實際上這就是我過10年或多或少一直在做的事情 Lex也許不這麼認為但是我一直是站在他那邊幫她說話的。我真心認為如果他可以更心平氣和的對待網路上的人們我們會更加的成功 3.做我們正在做的 - 分叉出去並有個新鮮的開始我身心健康已經無法讓我選擇第二個選項, 我寧願退出社群, 也就是第一個選項。 Lex一再反覆的與我爭辯認為我有辦法制約他但明顯的這不是兩個成年人應有的交流, 且我已不再年輕我們分叉出去了(We have forked) 沒有錯, 我們決定從Forge分叉出去。我與Curle都堅信這是對於這項目未來的最佳決定。更重要的是對於社群來說 - 我成為項目的領導者並非為了錢或權, 我們也將在未來推出一系列的計畫這些將隨時間公布我們必須分叉因為許多重要/核心資產(core assets)都在於Lex的公司Forge LLC的授權下我們也將隨著時間以我們新品牌的風格取代那些資產總體而言這是最好的決定有件事情必須注意, 這目前並不是硬分叉(hard fork)。我們與目前的Forge仍然相容, 而我們是否會打破這個相容性是許多討論的主題之一, 有些人認為該盡快清理累積已久的問題有些人則認為得更加仔細的來。兩種觀點都有他的理由所以我們將舉行一場公開討論以解決這些問題(i. 參見他們 Discord Event) 為何這一切看起來如此倉促?_ 在這之前我們已經進行了為期9天的準備及溝通, 並有一個私人的Discord伺服器讓我們討論未來方向和初始計畫。這一切都很好, 直到我在昨天早上收到我一生中最大的震撼, Lex在我們的私人伺服器中閱讀我們所有的計畫。原因無從得知, 我們也可能永遠都不會知道, 但是秘密已經流出。木已成舟我們認為與其讓我們過去兩年所做的努力付之東流我們必須迅速採取措施來保護社群。因此我們在萬事尚未俱備時提前就啟動了計畫這些都是為了社群好。你為何接管了Discord? Discord從頭到尾都屬於我, 是在Discord測試初期就建立的。隨著Discord日漸壯大我建議Lex將其作為我們的主要線上活動空間。剛開始他仍然僅次於esper.net上的#minecraftforge, 但隨著時間它成為了我們線上最大的社群。儘管我多次提出轉讓Discord所有權給Lex的建議他似乎完全不感興趣, 所以他可以算是屬於我的資產。而作為我的資產我認為最好將其重新命名。接下來會發生什麼? 事情會漸漸安定下來, 我們預計在不久的將來完成擬定一些項目公約 - 我們有一個非常好的計畫來統籌整個專案。我們也得到了許多的支持及幫助, 從許多社群人員, 包括大型託管供應商, 商品分發管理網站等. . .。我們將為那些願意慷慨解囊的人們設立一個opencollective(i. 類似募資平台), 這些金錢將全額使用於專案給那些願意花時間來維護專案的人一點零用錢。我的意見及觀點我想先聲明以上屬於我的個人意見及觀點, 其他人可能在細節上將有不同於自己的想法, 但我相信這是對於專案最好的未來。我希望Curle也能對此事發表一些聲明。 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 心得: 畫面很亂, 花生省魔術? 好像在看宮廷八點檔 . . . -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 122.58.22.130 (紐西蘭) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Minecraft/M.1689295867.A.AED.html ※ 編輯: pupudice (122.58.22.130 紐西蘭), 07/14/2023 10:29:19 ※ 編輯: pupudice (122.58.22.130 紐西蘭), 07/14/2023 10:30:15