[情報] 9/2 Q&A

看板Wargaming (戰艦世界 - WOT)作者 (羽織)時間12年前 (2013/09/02 21:13), 編輯推噓33(33051)
留言84則, 24人參與, 最新討論串1/3 (看更多)
原文網址: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/09/02/2-9-2013-2/ = Today was a bit technical, so I hope I got everything right 今天的問題比較技術性,我希望我沒有弄錯問題的內容 - SerB is not afraid of WoWp stealing players from WoT, he thinks the migration will be normal SerB 不擔心 WoWp 會拉走 WoT 的玩家,他覺得玩家跑去玩很正常 - SerB describing the difference between US and Soviet penetration methodology: “The difference is in the amount of shell fragments, that make it past the armor. In the common American and German system it is based on “primary penetration” (20 percent of fragments make it behind the armor), while the Soviet data are based on the “guaranteed penetration” (80 percent). We compared the data of German and American 75mm guns tested in USSR and with German 50mm, 88mm and British 57mm. There is a 1,17 times difference on average” SerB 描述美國和蘇聯計算穿深的方法之間的不同: "不同點是在計算擊穿裝甲的砲彈碎 片多寡;美國和德國的系統是基於 "初級擊穿" (有 20% 的碎片穿過裝甲),而蘇聯的資 料是基於 "保證擊穿" (80%)。我們比較過在蘇聯測試過的德國和美國 75mm砲、德國的 50mm 和 88mm砲、英國的57mm砲,它們的數據在兩種方法之間平均有 1.17倍的差距" - SerB states that this table is not accurate, he considers the Soviet gun tests table accurate SerB 表示這個表格並不正確,他認為蘇聯的測試表格才是正確的 - according to the (Soviet) data above, the Ferdinand 88mm gun performed worse than the Soviet D-10T and D-52. SerB and others were wondering why that happened, it was possible the Soviets used very early ammunition model (SS: Flak), in the end, they decided not to nerf the Ferdinand gun based on this 根據上面的蘇聯資料,Ferdinand 88mm 砲表現得比蘇聯的 D-10T 和 D-52 差。SerB 和其他人在想為什麼會這樣,有可能蘇聯是用很早期的砲彈模型去算的(SS: 高射炮),基 於這個原因他們最後決定不要 nerf Ferdinand 的砲 - WG actually started using the German penetration methodology, but switched to the Soviet one during closed WoT beta WG 一開始用的是德國計算穿深的方法,不過 WoT CB 的時候改成用蘇聯的算法 - T-62 won’t appear in WoT, SerB categorically denies the appearance of smoothbore guns (SerB states that the current “armor plays no role” whine would be mild in comparison, as smoothbore guns typically have 400mm+ penetration) T-62 不會在 WoT 出現,SerB 斷然拒絕滑膛砲出現在遊戲內(SerB 表示實裝的話目前 的 "裝甲無用論" 抱怨會比較少,因為基本上滑膛砲的穿深都超過 400mm) - SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable candidate for its replacement is found, it will be reconsidered (SS: that’s funny, I thought it was actually 120mm) SerB 表示歷史上 E-75 沒有 120mm 的車側裝甲,也沒有 128mm 砲,它的側裝甲是 80mm。跟 KT 比起來沒有太大的進步,不過比較容易生產。目前遊戲內的 E-75 不符合 史實,如果有找到可能代替的車輛,會考慮用找到的那輛車(SS: 真有趣,我還以為真的 是 120mm) - the final variant of Panther II lower frontal plate was allegedly planned to be 120mm thick, SerB will have a look at it too (SS: probably a typo, the poster most likely means upper frontal plate) Panther II 首下裝甲最後聽說要改成 120mm 厚,SerB 也會去查查資料(SS: 應該是張 貼的人打字錯誤,指的應該是首上裝甲厚度) - theoretically it would be possible to nerf the D-25T penetration to 165 by introducing early type shells, but it won’t be done… for now 理論上有可能利用引進早期型砲彈來 nerf D-25T 的穿甲能力到 165,不過目前不會改 - SerB agrees with the King Tiger 105mm aim time nerf SerB 贊同 nerf KT 105 砲的瞄準時間 - SerB states that the 8.8 changes in German heavy tanks mobility still made them roughly equal in value to what they were before SerB 表示 8.8 對德國重坦行動力的更動仍使得它們的價值和之前大略相同 - SerB sees no reason for rebalancing T-62A/Object 140 in order to make them differ more from one another SerB 找不到任何需要重新平衡 T-62A/Obj. 140 使得它們更不相像的理由 - it’s possible the collision model of the Object 140 will change (making it bigger) 有可能Obj. 140 的碰撞模組會改變(改大一點) - historically, the D-5T and S-53 guns were considered sufficient until the King Tiger appeared. But the fact that the 85BM gun appeared shows that the ballistic properties of 52-K were considered inferior to the German 88mm 歷史上,D-5T 和 S-53 砲在 KT 出現之前都認為是足夠的。但事實上 85BM 砲的出現 指出 52-K 的彈道性能比不上德國的 88 砲 - IS-7 will not be made more mobile IS-7 的行動力不會改的更好 - animated tail gunner will be implemented into WoWp WoWp 會做尾砲手的動畫 = 完 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 36.231.19.163

09/02 21:18, , 1F
喔喔豹二buff裝甲的話獵豹二也能受惠呢~
09/02 21:18, 1F

09/02 21:19, , 2F
不過我比較好奇的是獵豹二戰鬥室到底多厚? 彈起來絕
09/02 21:19, 2F

09/02 21:19, , 3F
對不只100mm+斜角啊? 超彈的耶
09/02 21:19, 3F

09/02 21:20, , 4F
然後E75除了藍圖外有做出什麼東東嗎? 底盤或履帶之類
09/02 21:20, 4F

09/02 21:24, , 5F
我不得不說WoWp的介面比WOT好得多
09/02 21:24, 5F

09/02 21:24, , 6F
D-25T穿深還要砍喔,IS已經倒數第3了诶
09/02 21:24, 6F

09/02 21:24, , 7F
而且WoWp轉自由經驗不用湊25的倍數
09/02 21:24, 7F

09/02 21:27, , 8F
我賺到五千金之後就把wowp刪了~
09/02 21:27, 8F

09/02 21:27, , 9F
戰鬥室在哪? 如果是上半的話150mm+約55斜角
09/02 21:27, 9F

09/02 21:27, , 10F
58度,等效約兩倍,大概300mm
09/02 21:27, 10F

09/02 21:31, , 11F
虎王的頂砲瞄準時間要nerf? 我看之前的訊息怎沒有..
09/02 21:31, 11F

09/02 21:34, , 12F
每次講到德國就開始扯史實
09/02 21:34, 12F

09/02 21:35, , 13F
別的國家用史實去罵 Serb就只會叫你要史實請去當兵
09/02 21:35, 13F

09/02 21:36, , 14F
咦咦? 58度約=60度 應該只有1.2倍左右吧?
09/02 21:36, 14F

09/02 21:37, , 15F
30度才是兩倍啊
09/02 21:37, 15F

09/02 21:41, , 16F
查wiki也說等效300 但我覺得太扯了 實際坦起來約230
09/02 21:41, 16F

09/02 21:43, , 17F
被T8等級的重坦打(穿約220) 能坦掉一半左右
09/02 21:43, 17F

09/02 21:45, , 18F
除非那一半是開金 那也頂多250
09/02 21:45, 18F

09/02 21:46, , 19F
而且獵豹二的射界很窄 正對敵人時擺午餐影響應該不大
09/02 21:46, 19F

09/02 21:47, , 20F
不像斐迪南還能硬擺15度=w=
09/02 21:47, 20F

09/02 21:49, , 21F
大象跟豹二哪台好阿??...戰場上比較怕遇到大象
09/02 21:49, 21F

09/02 21:50, , 22F
虎王從2.3秒->2.5秒 以121%組員的手感來說也還好
09/02 21:50, 22F

09/02 21:54, , 23F
感謝樓上熱心回答!
09/02 21:54, 23F

09/02 21:54, , 24F
Yuki,老實說我覺得我們德粉要求不多,改掉那個正面
09/02 21:54, 24F

09/02 21:55, , 25F
中彈起火的妖孽設定我們就謝天謝地了...
09/02 21:55, 25F

09/02 21:55, , 26F
北港香爐
09/02 21:55, 26F

09/02 21:56, , 27F
虎王腫瘤弱點改小後瞄準時間長一點點還能接受 不過好
09/02 21:56, 27F

09/02 21:57, , 28F
像瞄準時間沒聽過2.5的=w=
09/02 21:57, 28F

09/02 21:58, , 29F
而且平面炮塔被TD硬穿的機率依然不小 能快瞄快擺角
09/02 21:58, 29F

09/02 21:58, , 30F
才夠安全
09/02 21:58, 30F

09/02 21:58, , 31F
關於E75側面只有80公分的那段,SS的意見翻譯不太對
09/02 21:58, 31F

09/02 21:59, , 32F
SS的口氣比較像是不以為然:好笑,我認為確實有120mm
09/02 21:59, 32F

09/02 22:00, , 33F
"史實"一直以來都是用來砍德國車的理由(ry
09/02 22:00, 33F

09/02 22:01, , 34F
不過『認為』這個字用過去式,可能就表示現在不認為
09/02 22:01, 34F

09/02 22:12, , 35F
真有趣,為何當初要設定成不符合"史實"的120mm?
09/02 22:12, 35F

09/02 22:15, , 36F
德國砲瞄準時間通常2.3s不然就2.9s 2.5s算是首創吧
09/02 22:15, 36F

09/02 22:19, , 37F
因為符合史實的話就會變八階車吧
09/02 22:19, 37F

09/02 22:22, , 38F
E-75那個正面去當8階車(抖
09/02 22:22, 38F

09/02 22:24, , 39F
虎式不是tierVI的原因還不是因為他是德國車
09/02 22:24, 39F

09/02 22:26, , 40F
沒辦法,北極熊二戰被老德k很慘,是靠數量跟生產力
09/02 22:26, 40F

09/02 22:27, , 41F
T6的實史虎式?不就3601?
09/02 22:27, 41F

09/02 22:27, , 42F
獲勝,外加無雙冬將軍,特別恨也是一種歷史情結吧?
09/02 22:27, 42F

09/02 22:28, , 43F
所以我就說SerB是德黑還不承認
09/02 22:28, 43F

09/02 22:28, , 44F
不刻意升階德國高階剩TD的天下了啊
09/02 22:28, 44F

09/02 22:31, , 45F
他是個完完全全的德黑沒啥好說的 越來越討厭他的口吻
09/02 22:31, 45F

09/02 23:19, , 46F
不過冷戰時期的確說道戰車想到的是俄國~結果is7那麼
09/02 23:19, 46F

09/02 23:20, , 47F
慘~真的蠻出乎我意料的
09/02 23:20, 47F

09/02 23:21, , 48F
而且Serb打死都不BUFF喔~這樣有沒有好過一點~XDD
09/02 23:21, 48F

09/02 23:22, , 49F
因為冷戰真的嚇到西方的戰車這遊戲都不會出啊
09/02 23:22, 49F

09/02 23:22, , 50F
德國那時候其實~二戰缺原料又務實~紙本計畫比較接近
09/02 23:22, 50F

09/02 23:24, , 51F
現實世界~不會有太誇裝的紙圖出現
09/02 23:24, 51F

09/02 23:38, , 52F
雖然我沒玩德國車 但是德國車被搞成這樣我都有點看
09/02 23:38, 52F

09/02 23:38, , 53F
不下去了
09/02 23:38, 53F

09/02 23:52, , 54F
黑德國 (X) 黑德粉 (O)
09/02 23:52, 54F

09/03 00:03, , 55F
所以到底是要通通按照史實藍圖車也不出還是要他媽的
09/03 00:03, 55F

09/03 00:03, , 56F
好好把遊戲平衡作好阿
09/03 00:03, 56F

09/03 00:14, , 57F
SerB nerf德系毫不手軟,nerf個蘇系就該該叫,不意外
09/03 00:14, 57F

09/03 01:09, , 58F
看到滿滿的德車 就知道沒好話了
09/03 01:09, 58F

09/03 01:36, , 59F
請教一下is-7慘在哪? 單看數據沒有很淒慘的感覺...
09/03 01:36, 59F

09/03 01:40, , 60F
填裝太久壓制力不夠
09/03 01:40, 60F

09/03 01:40, , 61F
然後可以銀幣買金彈讓他比起前好處理很多
09/03 01:40, 61F

09/03 01:42, , 62F
那還是以金彈作為前提耶...要說車弱好歹也用銀彈來講
09/03 01:42, 62F

09/03 01:43, , 63F
如果說砲的壓制力不夠尚可同意,不過說填裝
09/03 01:43, 63F

09/03 01:45, , 64F
唉,這就是差距吧? 我們德國車是在想怎麼盡量擋銀彈
09/03 01:45, 64F

09/03 01:45, , 65F
以前金彈不能銀幣買所以很強 現在可以買所以要討論
09/03 01:45, 65F

09/03 01:45, , 66F
人家只需要思考金彈...或許真的是該考慮換線了
09/03 01:45, 66F

09/03 01:47, , 67F
是啦,現在金彈用銀幣買,不過我認為必須用上金彈
09/03 01:47, 67F

09/03 01:47, , 68F
現在很多人看到IS-7(其實是打不穿的車子)就切金彈
09/03 01:47, 68F

09/03 01:47, , 69F
導致就某方面來說遊戲正在崩壞
09/03 01:47, 69F

09/03 01:47, , 70F
才能有效造成傷害,某方面來說不也是一種op嗎?
09/03 01:47, 70F

09/03 01:48, , 71F
開金彈就能解決就是一個問題 你不用硬跟銀幣彈比
09/03 01:48, 71F

09/03 01:48, , 72F
"被穿了就是被穿了管你金彈還銀彈"
09/03 01:48, 72F

09/03 01:48, , 73F
或許吧,不過怎麼說都比正面扛線還發爐要好很多...
09/03 01:48, 73F

09/03 01:48, , 74F
當你開著IS-7整天被金彈開罐頭就不覺得OP了
09/03 01:48, 74F

09/03 01:52, , 75F
看來打高階場我必須要改變習慣 需要用金彈就用
09/03 01:52, 75F

09/03 01:52, , 76F
我到目前為止用金彈的次數大概少於20次
09/03 01:52, 76F

09/03 01:53, , 77F
大概是太堅持八階盡可能不用賠錢的思維...
09/03 01:53, 77F

09/03 08:31, , 78F
如果開八階時常賺錢代表你已經是隊上負責carry的了
09/03 08:31, 78F

09/03 08:31, , 79F
以這種技術,善用金彈只有更賺而已
09/03 08:31, 79F

09/04 00:40, , 80F
滑膛炮那句翻錯了,原意是“滑膛炮來了之後,現在的
09/04 00:40, 80F

09/04 00:41, , 81F
‘裝甲無用論’whining浪潮聽起來就很柔和了”(也就
09/04 00:41, 81F

09/04 00:41, , 82F
是有滑膛炮的話whining將會震破天花板)
09/04 00:41, 82F

09/05 16:57, , 83F
在同階或者低階場,用銀彈運氣別太差都會賺
09/05 16:57, 83F

09/05 16:57, , 84F
不過高階場,我現在開始噴金彈了
09/05 16:57, 84F
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