PTT遊戲區 / StarCraft (星海爭霸2 - SC2)

[新聞] 大維京的狀況報告

看板StarCraft (星海爭霸2 - SC2)作者 (1 2 3 4 疾風炭)時間13年前 (2013/06/12 15:12), 編輯推噓103(112推 9噓 233→)
留言354則, 87人參與, 最新討論串1/1
http://us.battle.net//sc2/en/blog/10210613 With the awesome conclusion of the global finals of the first season of this year’s World Championship Series, we thought this was as good a time as any to offer a detailed update on our current thought processes and how we’re approaching balance going forward. 隨著今年WCS第一季的結束，我們認為這是個說明我們目前對遊戲的觀察與接下來平衡 方向的好時機 More Action throughout the Game 遊戲當中更多的會戰 We strongly believe that this is the main direction the game should go. More action means more diversity, which makes the game more challenging to play and more fun to watch. 我們相信這是遊戲本身所應該走的方向，更多的會戰代表更多的可能性， 這會讓遊戲玩起來更有挑戰性，看起來也更有趣。 Back when Medivac drops were easy to stop, PvT was often a long macro buildup with little action, and a few large battles determined the winner. Nowadays, there are more drops happening, and every game plays out very differently. Different games range from the Protoss player perfectly stopping everything to the Terran player pulling off awesome drops to both players taking it to the late game, and everything in-between. 在醫療艇很容易就被打下來的時候，PvT就是個比慫的對決，幾場大會戰就決定 勝負。但現在，更多的空投，每場遊戲都有不一樣的發展。神族玩家完美的應對 空投與人類玩家完美執行空投策略之間，導致了有打到大後期與其他各式各樣 發展的可能。 We feel that this diversity of outcomes makes for a better late game. Sure, sometimes a Protoss player amasses a large army of High Templar, Colossi, and Tempests, and against a well-defended opponent there are few options for harassment. But action-filled games are less predictable and reach the max-army endgame less often. When there is a huge maxed-out push, it’s the culmination of all the harassment and skirmishes that came before it. 我們認為這樣子的發展是好的。當然，有時候還是神族無敵組合(加上暴風歐)， 對於這種銅牆鐵壁的玩家還是沒有什麼騷擾的方法，不過充滿會戰的遊戲過程 的不可預測性也讓200人口對A的情況減少了。你看到的200人口部隊會戰，其實是 之前所有的騷擾與小型會戰所堆積出來的高潮。 Change the Game to Promote Skill 讓遊戲偏向有高技巧的人 The Warp Prism change we tested last week is a good example of a tweak that benefits players who are amazing at multitasking, while having little effect on the game below the pro level. For an eSport game like SC2, we want more things in the game that separate out the very best from the average, not less. 上星期我們針對稜鏡的測試就是個好例子。這會讓擅長多線的選手有更多優勢， 但是對飛職業級別的選手差距不大。對於像SC2這樣的電子競技遊戲，我們希望 有更多事情可以讓頂尖選手出類拔萃。 We can look to INnoVation as a case where what we’re talking about is currently working quite well. His strategies are not very different from those of most other Terran players, but his Widow Mine usage is incomparably better. When we watch his TvZ games, we see a crystal clear difference between the usefulness of the unit and the skill of the player. 我們可以拿InnoVation作為例子。他的戰術與多數人族玩家差異不大，但是他 的地雷使用就是比其他人好。當我們觀看他的TvZ，我們可以清楚的看出他擅長 使用這個單位與這位選手的技巧如何 (明明就是火車人空投吧!) Units Currently Being Discussed 目前被拿來討論的單位 Some units will always be more central to specific strategies and/or matchups than others, so we’d rather those units be fun to watch and challenging to use. 有些單位更常被作為戰術的主軸，所以我們希望這些單位能夠用起來有挑戰性&觀賞性 ==== We’re currently seeing a lot of discussion about: 目前討論的對象有: Void Ray 虛空艦 We’re seeing a lot of Void Ray play in PvZ, but Protoss is still not statistically overpowered. PvZ裡面虛空用的很多，不過神族統計上並沒有OP Zerg all-ins aren’t the only counter, as we see many PvZ matches last into the mid- and late-game, ending in a Zerg victory, despite the usage of Void Rays. 蟲族的all-in並不只是唯一的反制法，因為我們蒐集到不少PvZ會戰打到中後期， 就算神族使用了虛空也照樣是由蟲族拿下。 Void Rays are much better than they used to be, but we don’t think this is a bad thing. 虛空比以前強很多，而且我們認為這是件好事 Stargate used to be almost unusable, and now it’s quite important. We also see a lot of Robo and Templar play. 過去VS線幾乎不可用，現在他看來非常的重要。我們還是看到不少VR/VC為主的比賽。 All tech options are viable now throughout the course of the game. 所有的科技線目前看來在遊戲當中都可用 We don’t currently have any plans to nerf Void Rays. 我們目前沒有計畫nerf虛空 Widow Mine 地雷 Widow Mines are currently overshadowing units such as Siege Tanks and Thors, but their use doesn’t correlate distinctly with wins over Protoss or Zerg opponents. 目前地雷把坦克跟雷神的地位吃掉了，不過這與TvP/Z的比賽勝負沒有關係。 So our question here becomes “is this a good thing that Widow Mines have replaced Siege Tanks as the primary splash damage units?” 所以問題就變成了"地雷取代了坦克是件好事嗎?" We believe the answer is yes. 我們認為是的。 When you see an army of Marines and tanks clash with a Zerg army, you pretty much know who will come out ahead, even before the battle. 你看到一堆槍坦跟Z主力對戰的時候，你大概就能知道將會發生什麼事。 When you see an army of Marines and Widow Mines, it comes down to the skill of the players in that specific battle. 但是看到一堆槍雷，那就變成決定於選手的技巧 (This is Totally BS) The current design of Widow Mines rewards both players who are skilled at using them and opposing players who are skilled at defeating them. 目前地雷的設計對於擁有高超佈雷&排雷技巧的選手有所獎勵。 It doesn’t look like Siege Tanks have disappeared. They’re critical in TvT, and in TvZ they’re key to playing a safe early/mid game. Additionally, Terran Mech also has potential. 坦克並未消失，他們依然在TvT&早中期TvZ扮演重要角色。更重要的是， 機械化還有它的可能性。 (機械化的靈魂是坦克阿) As long as Widow Mines reward skilled players and Terran can’t legitimately be said to be better than the other races, we don’t plan to adjust this unit. 只要地雷能獎勵有實力的玩家而且人族並未完全凌駕於其他種族之上的情況下， 目前沒有計畫調整這個單位。 ===== Casual observers often take a new or unexpected tactic or strategy that gains widespread use and just label it “OP”. In addition to Void Rays and Widow Mines, PartinG’s Immortal Sentry all-in got this treatment. Because it was a new strategy and it was working for PartinG, it was dismissed as OP. At the time, even other Protoss players at the highest level weren’t having as much success with the Immortal Sentry all-in after Zerg players had seen it for a week or two. We prefer to analyze a new strategy and ask: 業餘的觀賞者們通常會用一些很奇葩的戰術與策略，然後打贏了就說他"OP"。 除了VR與地雷以外，跳跳的三不朽也得到了這樣的稱號。因為這是個新戰術而且 只有跳跳能夠成功執行，所以他不被認可為OP。目前，即使是最高端的神族選手， 這一兩星期內也沒看到能成功執行的案例。我們還是希望能夠分析新策略並問: Is this actually making the game more fun? 遊戲有因此變得有趣嗎? What would happen if we nerfed this powerful unit? 如果我們nerf這種單位會怎樣? Would a proposed change make the game more or less stale? 這會讓遊戲變得更慫嗎? Balance Testing Plan 接下來的平衡測試計畫 We have two main goals for testing. First is making sure that we are dealing with units/strategies that are making gameplay stale. For example, we’re looking carefully at Swarm Host + mass defenses play. Our second goal is locating a race that is playing weaker than the other two, and improving it in ways that are fun for the game. 我們有兩個主要的目標:測試哪些單位讓遊戲變得很慫；譬如百生猥瑣陣。 另外一個目標則是鎖定有個"種族"目前看來比其他兩族弱，並且強化他。 It’s important to note that we like trying out changes in balance test maps that are more aggressive than we might intend to implement in the live game. This is better than theorycrafting and gathering theorycrafted feedback. The more we experiment in real gameplay, the more we learn. We’re constantly reaching out to as many pro players and casters as we can, and we’re willing to try out changes that sound cool in testing. 有件事情是必須要澄清的；我們在平衡測試地圖上通常都會使用比我們預計還要 更侵略性的調整，這更容易預測推演到極致的情況&更容易收到回饋。我們做更多 的實驗就能學到更多。我們常態性的聆聽職業選手與主播們的回響，而且也願意 測試許多聽起來很酷的東西 As always, we believe everything can be improved. We’re very thankful that you share your thoughts with us. 感謝你，我們下次見 -- 長久以來，我們將許多地方，與許多時刻視為理所當然。 我們對這個理所當然很冷淡，所以理所當然，終於忍受不了悲傷，逃走消失了。 失去之後，我們才重新注意到，這理所當然。 然而今後，也還會有很多的理所當然，漸漸的消失吧。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.113.49.86
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06/12 15:15, , 1F
講了這麼長一串 不就是我們認為很平衡 不需要改變嘛
06/12 15:15, 1F
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06/12 15:15, , 2F
頭推
06/12 15:15, 2F
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06/12 15:15, , 3F
講了這麼多等於沒講 根本政府官員...
06/12 15:15, 3F
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06/12 15:16, , 4F
一樓沒看內容 他說有個種族特弱 要加強了
06/12 15:16, 4F
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06/12 15:16, , 5F
"VR比以前強很多，而且我們認為這是件好事"
06/12 15:16, 5F
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06/12 15:17, , 6F
會不誤認為VR是機械製造場?
06/12 15:17, 6F
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06/12 15:17, , 7F
根據慣例 被大BUFF的總族通常不會拿下冠軍...
06/12 15:17, 7F
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06/12 15:17, , 8F
厄 好吧
06/12 15:17, 8F
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06/12 15:17, , 9F
OK
06/12 15:17, 9F
※ 編輯: kira925 來自: 140.113.49.86 (06/12 15:18)
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06/12 15:17, , 10F
翻譯:省略三千字，現在很平衡，下次見!
06/12 15:17, 10F
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06/12 15:20, , 11F
馬的 浪費你我生命 翻譯者翻到這種文真的很幹
06/12 15:20, 11F
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06/12 15:20, , 12F
哪一個種族偏弱呢!?
06/12 15:20, 12F
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06/12 15:22, , 13F
不多不少 有3族很弱需要BUFF
06/12 15:22, 13F
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06/12 15:22, , 14F
他沒講XD
06/12 15:22, 14F
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06/12 15:22, , 15F
不過他如果肯去處理百生猥瑣陣是好事拉...
06/12 15:22, 15F
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06/12 15:24, , 16F
TvT 天天空投火車俠 有夠好看
06/12 15:24, 16F
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06/12 15:25, , 17F
看起來他是說批比較弱耶...
06/12 15:25, 17F
噓
06/12 15:26, , 18F
大維京不意外
06/12 15:26, 18F
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06/12 15:28, , 19F
P只需要努力+娛樂就夠囉
06/12 15:28, 19F
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06/12 15:28, , 20F
P imba weak buff P plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
06/12 15:28, 20F
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06/12 15:28, , 21F
PT不Nerf Z已死
06/12 15:28, 21F
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06/12 15:28, , 22F
其實他提的點沒錯 只是這篇沒啥內容= =
06/12 15:28, 22F
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06/12 15:29, , 23F
現在真的很平衡，我隨機每一族都打不過 ORZ xd
06/12 15:29, 23F
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06/12 15:29, , 24F
聳聳看肉肉表示:
06/12 15:29, 24F
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06/12 15:29, , 25F
放心吧 P就是親兒子 老爸會幫你搞到好的
06/12 15:29, 25F
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06/12 15:31, , 26F
我看不出一樓的結論哪裡來的
06/12 15:31, 26F
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06/12 15:33, , 27F
P太弱了 只好Buff一下稜鏡
06/12 15:33, 27F
噓
06/12 15:34, , 28F
好笑
06/12 15:34, 28F
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06/12 15:34, , 29F
T imba weak,buff T plz
06/12 15:34, 29F
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06/12 15:36, , 30F
現階段他不要亂調平衡就是好事
06/12 15:36, 30F
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06/12 15:36, , 31F
Z：那我哩?
06/12 15:36, 31F
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06/12 15:36, , 32F
舔舔Kaosie
06/12 15:36, 32F
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06/12 15:37, , 33F
同意他不亂調就是件好事
06/12 15:37, 33F
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06/12 15:38, , 34F
只看到神族被虐爆
06/12 15:38, 34F
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06/12 15:39, , 35F
這是REPORT 講這麼多還是沒有要改是意料之中吧
06/12 15:39, 35F
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06/12 15:40, , 36F
不要起爭議啦~~大家一起來孵化池游泳吧~~~
06/12 15:40, 36F
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06/12 15:43, , 37F
我想問一下 英文的all in是不是一波的意思？
06/12 15:43, 37F
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06/12 15:43, , 38F
之前聽到他們說三不朽是immortals all-in...
06/12 15:43, 38F
還有 276 則推文
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06/12 20:09, , 315F
更大的問題是Viper讓P打陣地戰更艱難
06/12 20:09, 315F
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06/12 20:10, , 316F
P的火力清不掉小兵生免錢的GGLord和SupremeHost
06/12 20:10, 316F
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06/12 20:11, , 317F
我不太懂為什麼當初會把反隱跟標定拆兩個技能
06/12 20:11, 317F
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06/12 20:11, , 318F
到現在還是不懂
06/12 20:11, 318F
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06/12 20:11, , 319F
就目前來看 ZVP乾脆不修也很有可能 怎麼改都不對
06/12 20:11, 319F
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06/12 20:11, , 320F
又沒有火力調升的空間，真的是需要別的東西來平衡@@
06/12 20:11, 320F
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06/12 20:12, , 321F
BZ給P破陣地的解決之道就是暴風艦阿 只是目前..
06/12 20:12, 321F
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06/12 20:12, , 322F
暴風打GGLord效果很好 但是標定不到SupremeHost
06/12 20:12, 322F
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06/12 20:13, , 323F
標不到就打不到 陣地就沒辦法推
06/12 20:13, 323F
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06/12 20:15, , 324F
讓我們來高喊Maelstrom回歸！
06/12 20:15, 324F
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06/12 20:20, , 325F
06/12 20:20, 325F
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06/12 20:21, , 326F
順便懷念一下紫龍的神技TAT
06/12 20:21, 326F
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06/12 20:23, , 327F
06/12 20:23, 327F
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06/12 20:23, , 328F
史上最經典 沒有之一
06/12 20:23, 328F
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06/12 20:25, , 329F
FA不要這樣 讓大家緬懷紫龍一下咩
06/12 20:25, 329F
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06/12 20:26, , 330F
可以解釋一下發生甚麼事嗎= = 我沒玩過SC
06/12 20:26, 330F
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06/12 20:26, , 331F
FA X 大衛金
06/12 20:26, 331F
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06/12 20:27, , 332F
Maelstrom的效果是 "讓生物單位停止10秒"
06/12 20:27, 332F
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06/12 20:27, , 333F
7秒吧?
06/12 20:27, 333F
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06/12 20:27, , 334F
花果山戰隊被Mill. Dayshi一個人挑掉
06/12 20:27, 334F
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06/12 20:28, , 335F
紅球(Dark Archon)放Maelstrom後讓單位上去圍殺
06/12 20:28, 335F
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06/12 20:29, , 336F
這其實跟現在那個Time Warp機制有點像....
06/12 20:29, 336F
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06/12 20:29, , 337F
不過Maelstrom強很多
06/12 20:29, 337F
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06/12 20:30, , 338F
Maelstrom要花掉四人口法師單位的100MP耶XD
06/12 20:30, 338F
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06/12 20:31, , 339F
那Time Warp應該算兩人口還是六人口阿(大笑)
06/12 20:31, 339F
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06/12 20:31, , 340F
而且只有一個單位能放歐
06/12 20:31, 340F
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06/12 20:32, , 341F
(不過不管怎麼說 我覺得Mothership刻意作鳥很奇怪)
06/12 20:32, 341F
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06/12 20:50, , 342F
Dayshi就這樣把MVP整隊AK了....
06/12 20:50, 342F
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06/12 21:03, , 343F
只有一個的8人口單位很難調整的，現在BZ很明顯不想碰
06/12 21:03, 343F
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06/12 21:03, , 344F
多人口法師單位這一塊
06/12 21:03, 344F
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06/12 21:25, , 345F
繼續亂搞沒關係 遊戲人數跟看比賽人數會反應的
06/12 21:25, 345F
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06/12 21:31, , 346F
星海一贏星海二太多了,戰術多元化. 經典兵種有趣多了
06/12 21:31, 346F
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06/12 21:42, , 347F
FA解說SC1也比解說SC2熱情多了 (?)
06/12 21:42, 347F
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06/12 22:21, , 348F
多人口法師弄不好就像媽媽船黑洞 空大和沒空大的比拚而已
06/12 22:21, 348F
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06/12 22:22, , 349F
ZvP只要天空流成型以後 正面又沒東西可以打 沒百生是要?
06/12 22:22, 349F
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06/13 01:25, , 350F
ZVP虛空強到不知道要出啥打 P整天龜天空流就飽了
06/13 01:25, 350F
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06/13 02:32, , 351F
ZVP虛空不用海就可以順秒Z的主保,插包子也沒用
06/13 02:32, 351F
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06/13 02:33, , 352F
刺蛇海也檔不住虛空海,真的不知道要拿什麼打虛空呀
06/13 02:33, 352F
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06/13 09:42, , 353F
耐斯方狗
06/13 09:42, 353F
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06/13 16:51, , 354F
次蛇海不會擋不住虛空 你沒出夠而已
06/13 16:51, 354F
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