[閒聊] D2R DLC JSP寶可夢大師長篇討論

看板DIABLO (暗黑破壞神 - D3,D2,D1)作者Yjizz (Zz菊池大谷西舘zZ)時間1小時前 (2026/03/18 08:00)推噓7(7推 0噓 14→)

留言21則, 6人參與討論串1/1

※※※直接懶人包→裡面很重要的一段，原PO有引言認同※※※ 他們測試後發現，只有 P8（8人難度）下的血量（Life）會持續保留，但傷害（Damage）和準確率（AR）等數據則不會。 ***(YTerMrLlamaSC 及其團隊) 另外也測試出，每次進入遊戲時，惡魔都會根據你當下的「綁定惡魔」技能等級重新召喚，所以捕捉惡魔時，不需要非得在最高等級的狀態下進行。 ※※※ ※※※ Goomshill作者做了多種測試排列的寶可夢應該是輸出做主要考量，他在後面幾頁還有回覆補充道:還是要依照配置、跟便利程度。也有提到A4聖冰詛咒Hephasto是蠻全面適合迴響的其中一種。實在太多頁了， 22 頁!m以下挑一些重點討論或有趣的東西 (因為是簡單網頁G翻，所以有些語句或詞彙有誤，建議還是要看原文) 例如aura靈氣都譯成光環不好理解。而原po分層的觀點主要在火力輸出他仍有多次提到還是要看技能配置跟需求記得JAB戳刺會有硬直，但輸出極高。還有一點印象看到K大說過槍兵有一招ZON的充能一擊，印象這招打出來不是很優。 (charge strike) 太長...打到斷線...PAGE16後面不見原文出處: Pokemon Tier List https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=107926808&f=148 ※page1 S Tier: Spear Rogue (TZ > Matron > Reg) A Tier: Urdar > Minion of Destruction > Vile Mother B Tier: Goatman > Hephasto > Smith > Axe Rogue > Hell Buzzard C Tier: Council > Balrog / Overseer / Putrid Defiler / Tainted > Flayer F Tier: Fallen/Fetish Shaman > Siren > Fetish / Archer Rogue > Demon Imp > Succubi Platinum SSS Hidden Tier: Pain Worm / Vile Child upgraded to unique via monster shrine so it has cursed 這邊還沒時間去找中文名跟位置 ~~~ ;;Why is Spear Rogue ranked so highly? Also Hephasto isn't #1? Spear rogue uses attack, power/cold strike & jab. And jab hits 3 times in a row. Hephasto uses normal attack. Goats move 50% faster and waste less time between targets, while Hephasto attacks a bit faster, but they're all limited by 15 frame AI delay and at 75% EIAS its 22 fpa vs 24-26 FPA 長矛盜賊使用普通攻擊、強力/冰冷打擊和刺擊。刺擊可以連續攻擊3次。赫菲斯托使用普通攻擊。山羊的移動速度提升50%，目標切換間隔更短，而赫菲斯託的攻擊速度略快，但它們都受到15幀AI延遲的限制，在75%有效攻擊速度下，山羊的攻擊速度為22幀/秒，而赫菲斯託的攻擊速度為24-26幀/秒。 ~ Only act 5 guest monster spearwomen use jab, and the matron's den version (who have 4x the HP). You can collect them in frigid highlands, frozen river, ancient's way and worldstone keep 1 這段和K大說的一樣，門裡面的血厚不少。 ~~ ((小bug/彩蛋? A3薩蠻野外解召後，屍體重生小鬼，AI會變成敵對攻擊你，但回城不會攻擊人。不能拿來殺人XD 至於城內解除就沒有詳細請看原文跟原po錄製的影片 )) Also secret ???? tier: https://youtu.be/tybTiasdHb8

He can run into towns from outside them, but won't attack people once in town (maybe the AI terror glitch could force it, but he'd still be unable to kill) If he dies in town he remains a clickable corpse that won't reanimate, because he's paused. If you leave the area and return he defaults back to standing animation but still idle 他可以從城外跑進城鎮，但進城後不會攻擊人（也許AI的恐懼漏洞可以強制他攻擊，但他仍然無法殺死任何人）。如果他在城鎮裡死亡，他會變成一具可點擊的屍體，但不會復活，因為他的動作被暫停了。如果你離開該區域後再返回，他會恢復站立動畫，但仍然處於靜止狀態 ※page2 So an important question I was asked by Szymikkrt and worth exploring was about how TZ affixes stack up and carry over games to create an even more powerful spearwoman Unfortunately upon testing thoroughly I found that: Affixes from terror zones WILL carry over added on top of all normal monsters. So if you bind a trash mob in a cursed terror zone, it will always carry the Cursed affix, even as you join a new game. Affixes from terror zones WILL NOT carry over onto champion mobs. Unfortunately. You will still get your champion bound and it will display the extra strong/fast/spectral/aura added to it, but it does NOT carry over affixes from TZ like Cursed Affixes from terror zones WILL NOT carry over onto unique mobs. They will only retain their base list of affixes without including the terror zone ones, plus the added bound ones- so no cursed from a cursed TZ 所以，有人問了我一個重要的問題(by Szymikkrt)值得探討的是，TZ詞綴如何疊加並繼承到下一場遊戲中，從而打造出更強大的女矛兵。遺憾的是，經過徹底測試後，我發現：來自恐怖區域的詞綴會保留下來，並疊加到所有普通怪物身上。所以，如果你在詛咒恐怖區域綁定了一隻小怪，即使你進入新遊戲，它也會一直帶有詛咒詞綴。恐怖區域的詞綴不會繼承到精英怪身上。很遺憾。你的精英怪仍然會綁定，並且會顯示額外添加的強力/快速/幽靈/光環效果，但它不會繼承來自恐怖區域的詞綴，例如詛咒詞綴。恐怖區域的詞綴不會繼承到獨特生物身上。它們只會保留基礎詞綴列表，不包括恐怖區域的詞綴，以及額外綁定的詞綴——所以詛咒區域不會給獨特生物附加詛咒詞綴。 ※page3 ;Am I tripping or why would a mob from tz be better than from marton’s den? ;Don’t those den ones have immune to literally anything except phys dmg Naw that's the venom lords in furnace of pain / uber trist, can only be uniques in furnace. They have the upside of 50% dr and 145% all other resists Black lancers in matrons den are lightning immune, with 33% dr and 0/25/100/50/15% resists Advantage of matrons den is that they have 400-500% of monlvl health and 130-260% of damage (120-180 for jab), while other a5 lancers only have 80-115% health and 65-130% damage (60-90 jab) But you're adding vastly more base damage from the skill so their % base stats don't matter, and while they do have almost 4x the HP that doesn't matter when they can't die because 500k+ hp + 6k/s regen and a button to spoon them 2 juvs and 100%+ lifesteal and so on Indeed the immunities on venom lords simply don't matter because taking damage is irrelevant when you can't die. The only immunities on demons that kind of matter are cold immunity to prevent chill, and poison immunity because poison disables their regen (but boy they still could tank for 10 minutes). And cold immunity only relative to chill effectiveness, cold is a 33% slow on lancers and they become cold immune with cold enchanted, same stats for blunderbores and lister. TZ lancers get up to level 99 as a unique and use the base 111 damage / 3940 ar, and for lvl 96 life for 7447 base. Den lancer uniques are level 86 with base 98 / 3446 ar, while hp is level 83 with base 5952. And having 400-500% of 5952. Hence the base damage is 72-144 for TZ a5 lancer normal attack, vs 127-254 for den lancers. But you're adding +1718 on top. And being level 99 means a better chance to hit in TZ areas / ubers against 96+ level opponents where even if you brought them to 100 hp after deathmark + conviction aura you might still have a significant chance to hit below 95% ;;我是不是記錯了？為什麼來自坦格利安的怪物會比馬頓巢穴的怪物強？馬頓 ;;巢穴的怪物不是除了物理傷害以外免疫所有傷害嗎？不，那是痛苦熔爐/終極崔斯特瑞姆裡的毒液領主，只能是熔爐裡的獨特物品。他們的優勢在於50%的傷害減免和145%的其他所有抗性。女族長巢穴中的黑槍兵免疫閃電傷害，擁有33%的傷害減免和0/25/100/50/15%的抗性。女族長巢穴的優勢在於他們擁有相當於怪物等級400-500%的生命值和130-260%的傷害（刺擊為120-180%），而其他A5槍兵只有80-115%的生命值和65-130%的傷害（刺擊為60-90%）。但是，技能帶來的基礎傷害大幅提升，所以他們的基礎屬性百分比並不重要。雖然他們的生命值幾乎是其他槍兵的四倍，但這無關緊要，因為他們幾乎無法被殺死，擁有超過50萬的生命值、每秒6000的生命回复，還有一個按鈕可以讓他們召喚兩個幼崽，以及超過100% 的生命偷取等等。確實，毒液免疫也很重要。領主們根本無關緊要，因為如果你不會死，受傷就毫無意義。惡魔身上唯一有點意義的免疫是冰霜免疫（防止被冰凍）和毒素免疫（因為毒素會阻止它們的生命回复，但它們仍然能扛上10分鐘）。冰霜免疫的意義也取決於冰凍效果，而冰霜對長矛兵來說是33%的減速，而附魔冰霜後它們就免疫冰霜傷害，火鐃和利斯特的屬性也一樣。 TZ 長矛兵最高可升到99級，作為獨特裝備，基礎傷害為111/護甲值3940，96級生命值則為 7447。丹恩槍騎兵的獨特等級為86級，基礎攻擊力為98/3446，而HP槍騎兵的等級為83級，基礎攻擊力為5952，並且擁有5952的400-500%的加成。因此，TZ a5槍騎兵普通攻擊的基礎傷害為72-144，而丹恩槍騎兵的基礎傷害為127-254。但你還可以額外獲得+1718的加成。 99級意味著在TZ區域/超級BOSS中，面對96級以上的對手時，即使你在死亡標記和信念光環的作用下將對手的生命值削減到100，你仍然有相當大的幾率將其生命值降至95%以下。 ※page4 ;;I know demon keeps the attributes of bind demon skill levels at the time of ;;taming and stays there forever (hence we can’t respec). ;;But do you know if they also keep the levels of the passive (oath and ;;mastery)? I guess it doesn’t really matter but just to min-max demons. ;;Can you tell me also why you put pin worm as platinum sss tier? Is it just ;;style point? ;Just style of course ;But yes we don't know exactly what's baked in at time of casting, binding and ;rejoining games, it needs to tested somehow and its not easy. The best way to ;set up tests would be using level 1 skill with +80 skills in hero editor, ;then test damage/etc in each scenario, should be pretty apparent. I am 99% confident that bind demon skill level is snapshotted into the demon at the time of taming (so basically max out bind demon skill level before taming if you care to min-max their attributes) which i briefly tested when it came out. I’m not sure how passive works ;;我知道惡魔馴服時會保留束縛技能的等級，並且永久生效（因此無法重置技能點）。 ;;但你知道它們是否也會保留被動技能（誓約和精通）的等級嗎？我猜這其實不重要， ;;只是為了優化惡魔的屬性。 ;;另外，可以告訴我你為什麼把蛆蟲列為白金SSS級嗎？僅僅是為了好看嗎？ ;當然只是風格問題。 ;但我們確實不清楚施法、綁定和重新加入遊戲時具體會觸發哪些機制，這需要以某種方 ;式進行測試，而這並不容易。最好的測試方法是在英雄編輯器中使用1級技能搭配+80級技 ;能，然後在每種情況下測試傷害等效果，結果應該會很明顯。我99%確定馴服惡魔時束縛惡魔的技能等級會被快照到惡魔身上（所以如果你想最大化惡魔的屬性，基本上需要在馴服前把束縛惡魔的技能等級升到最高），我在它剛推出的時候簡單測試過。我不確定被動技能是如何運作的。 ※page6 Different auras for different applications imo If you're a true pure summoner using only demon damage then aoe auras are wasted, because anything it hits is going to be cursed anyway. Well 75% of the time, but its still an aoe that applies it to the rest. Echoing strikes and blood boil builds need aoe curse from holy damage auras. Maybe the budget blood boil without infinity wants conviction + cursed and rely on the amp procs from attacks alone Fire warlock clearly wants conviction aura on the cheap But for a pure summoner who is only attacking with demon then fanat seems valid. I mean, its competing with you using beast mainhand, otherwise what else would you want? Might and holy freeze could be swapped between demon and merc otherwise, and ideally you'd get holy freeze on demon + cursed and might + pride on merc, but hell you could self-wield doom if you really cared about holy freeze too. I don't think the higher level fanat aura on demon is worth much though, because it ONLY gets the half % ed bonus rather than the double-to-self a player gets with it (光環請自動轉譯為靈氣，這裡是原po回覆前面幾則問流派搭配的適合寵物) 我認為不同的光環適用於不同的用途。如果你是純粹的召喚師，只使用惡魔傷害，那麼範圍光環就浪費了，因為所有被擊中的目標都會被詛咒。好吧，雖然有75%的機率是這樣，但它畢竟是一個範圍光環，可以把詛咒施加到剩下的目標上。迴響打擊和血沸流派需要神聖傷害光環的範圍詛咒。也許不帶無限光環的低配版血沸流派需要信念光環+詛咒光環，並且只依靠攻擊觸發的增幅效果。火術士顯然需要廉價的信念光環。但對於只用惡魔攻擊的純粹召喚師來說，狂熱光環似乎很適合。我的意思是，它和你使用野獸主手武器競爭，否則你還會想要什麼呢？力量光環和神聖冰凍光環可以在惡魔和傭兵之間互換，理想情況下，惡魔應該裝備神聖冰凍光環+詛咒光環，傭兵裝備力量光環+驕傲光環，但如果你真的很在意神聖冰凍光環，你也可以自己裝備末日審判光環。我覺得惡魔身上更高等級的狂熱光環價值不大，因為它只能獲得0.5%的增強效果加成，而不是玩家本身獲得的雙倍效果。 ※page7 ;Definitely learning some interesting new techniques with blood boil as I use ;it ;clear entire rooms in tz 94 tomb runs without opening the door first, because ;deathmark lets you teleport your demon to the other side Was doing this the other day, demon will even open doors to run back to you lol Question for you - Is demon movespeed a factor? Rogue seems way faster than a Mauler for example. (I know enigma/deathmark move demons but this rogue will engage cross screen on its own FAST) ;我確實學到了一些用血沸術的有趣新技巧，因為我用它 ;在94層古墓探險中不用開門就能清空整個房間，因為死亡印記可以讓你把惡魔傳送到另 ;一邊。前幾天試過，惡魔甚至會開門跑回來找你，哈哈。問你個問題－惡魔的移動速度會影響移動速度嗎？例如，盜賊的速度似乎比巨魔快得多。（我知道謎團/死亡印記可以移動惡魔，但這個盜賊能自己快速地跨屏攻擊。） ※page8 ;Is this info still top? I think so but its getting into more 'it depends' on char builds With life not being locked in at casting it probably matters to have a tankier summon for a blood boil build where there's a real risk of it dying if you're being incautious For a pure summoner you really can't have your pokemon die no matter what For a build without high +demon skills this really favors Hephasto because he's so much higher HP than others except the Matron's Den variant of lancer comes out above other lancers due to her high hp, still not as much as heph but a huge bonus if life matters and if all you care about is having a demon to apply amp+curse and don't want it to die, the furnace venom lords with 26k normal / 52k unique life and 50/145/145/145/145/145 resists would be ideal tanks even if they might as well never attack with their shitty inferno 我覺得是這樣，但這更多取決於角色構築。由於生命值在施法時不再鎖定，對於血沸流派來說，召喚一個更肉的召喚物可能很重要，因為稍有不慎召喚物就很容易死亡。對純召喚師來說，無論如何都不能讓你的召喚物死亡。對於沒有高惡魔技能加成的構築來說，赫菲斯託的優勢非常明顯，因為他的生命值比其他召喚物高得多。除了女族長巢穴的槍兵變體之外，其他槍兵都更勝一籌，因為她的生命值也很高，雖然不如赫菲斯托，但如果生命值很重要，這仍然是一個巨大的優勢。如果你只關心召喚一個惡魔來施加強化和詛咒，並且不希望它死亡，那麼擁有26k普通生命值/52k特殊生命值以及50/145/145/145/145/145抗性的熔爐毒液領主是理想的坦克，即使他們的煉獄技能很爛，幾乎無法攻擊。 ※page10 ;goomshill ;what is my best bet to secure a strong demon with conviction aura ;^goomshill Pay 100 fg. ;我怎麼能最好地獲得一個擁有信念光環的強大惡魔？支付 100 fg。 (jsp iso 之前是100fg一隻徵大約2000p上下) ~~~ ;well he spawned with convic on second run so I am happy for now ;I assume I need to recapture when I have higher level bind demon/passive ;skills? Your summon's lvl is capped at your own clvl They get highest lvl aura at monster lvl 96 and even if you can get heph lvl 96 from clvl 91 (TZ 93 +3 lvl for uniques) you still won't bind him at lvl 96 until you are yourself clvl 96+ ;他第二次就帶著信念能出現了，所以我現在很滿意。 ;我猜我需要等到束縛惡魔/被動技能等級更高的時候再去抓他吧？你的召喚物等級上限與你的角色等級相同。它們在怪物等級達到96級時才能獲得最高等級的光環。即使你能從91級（特殊怪物等級為93級+3級）獲得96級的赫菲斯托斯，你也只有在自身等級達到96級以上時才能將其綁定到96級 ※page11 ;whats the best build for pure summon? ;highest level bind is around what? 54 ? +6 weapon +6 tome +3 helm +3 ammy +2 armor +2 sojs +1 arach +1 wraithstep +9 skillers +4 torch anni +1 cta +2 skill shrine = 60 that will only lock in level 60 until the game ends, and at most you can have level 58 when you enter a new game, with the laborious process of gear swapping to that stuff and back ;純召喚流的最佳build是什麼？ ;最高等級的綁定技能大概是多少級？ 54級？ +6 武器 +6 魔典 +3 頭盔 +3 項鍊 +2 盔甲 +2 喬丹之石 +1 蛛網 +1 幽靈步 +9 技能石 +4 火炬滅 +1 召喚之杖 +2 技能神龕 = 60級，但等級會鎖定在60級直到遊戲結束，最多只能在進入新遊戲時達到非常58級，裝備需要更換。 ~~ ;On low/mid warlock (full naj/wt/2 ammy/rare belt/magefist/rhyme/save 3 ;respec) best bind demon setup? ;1. bind with items 20 need ;2. demonic mastery 20 ;3. Blood oat ~12 ;- Hephasto with conviction on cursed tz? May be teleport ;- or find Vile Mother A5 with conviction/cursed tz? Well definitely still depends on build but assuming echoing strikes Your ideal is probably still cursed + holy freeze urdar, but these are hard to obtain, same with a vile mother Ismail will be the easiest to obtain as cursed + holy freeze with that setup since you get the level 20 skill, but hephasto with cursed + holy freeze will be better- just much harder to obtain You could still roll TZ games until you get cursed and then search for the demon base you want and roll for cursed + holy freeze, but it won't be nearly as tanky as a high skills blood boil lock / endgame gear would get, so he might die where heph would live But urdars, particularly a5 guest ones, are basically unkillable ;低/中級術士（全套納吉利服/符文之語/2個項鍊/稀有腰帶/法師之拳/韻律/節省3點重 ;置技能點）最佳的惡魔束縛配置是什麼？ ;1. 綁定物品需要20點 ;2. 惡魔精通需要20點 ;3. 血燕麥(血誓)需要12點左右 ;。 - 赫菲斯托需要信念光環才能在詛咒時間節點上召喚惡魔？或許可以用傳送術 ;- 或在A5難度下用信念光環召喚邪惡之母？當然，這仍然取決於你的角色構建，但假設你使用迴響打擊，你的理想選擇可能仍然是詛咒+神聖冰凍的烏爾達，但這些很難獲得，邪惡之母也是如此。伊斯梅爾是詛咒+神聖冰凍組合中最容易獲得的，因為你可以獲得20級技能，但詛咒+神聖冰凍的赫菲斯托會更好——只是更難獲得。你仍然可以刷TZ遊戲直到獲得詛咒，然後尋找你想要的惡魔底材並洗出詛咒+神聖冰凍的組合，但這遠不如高技能的沸血術士/終極裝備那樣肉，所以他可能會在赫菲斯托能活下來的地方死去。但烏爾達，特別是A5訪客烏爾達，基本上是無法殺死的。 ※page12 ;What aura nets higher dps? You should be getting might from merc, if you're a pure summoner probably best holding pride so your merc can use a much higher damage weapon without blinds target. You can get fanat on your demon then, merc could be doom runeword if you still want holy freeze. That's for a pure summoner as opposed to a practical build I'm going to try doing some testing right now with 1 point bind on the a1 norm smith, no blood oath, and letting him get hit by the poison cloud from a5 hell p1 catapults in bloody foothills. As long as I avoid the other types I should be able to nail down P1 vs P8 health scaling. I'll report back tested on self 363 damage over 24 seconds with 0% resist / 0% poison length reduced in hell (+100% resist / +100% PLR) so against a -50% resist / 0% plr smith it should be 544 damage over 24 seconds and kill him from full hp in P1, but not P8 now to try the impossible task of getting this guy hit by poison but not anything else, I'll teleport to town if he's tagged /e also I'm unsure if the damage on catapults gets the +43.75% or not in P8. So I'll have to just test the broad strokes of numbers. First time binding him in P1, then P8 /e after GREAT difficulty getting catapults to switch to poison, P1 bound smith died after about 18-20 seconds of poison. This matches predicted math for his DPS taken, now for P8 testing. I'll first capture him in P8 norm, then bring him to a P1 hell First time confirms: he has only lost ~30% of his HP instead of 100% ;哪一種光環能帶來更高的DPS？ (光環= 靈氣) 如果你是純召喚師，最好選擇傭兵的「驕傲」符文，這樣傭兵就能使用傷害更高的武器而不會致盲目標。之後你可以給你的惡魔裝備“狂熱”，如果你仍然想要神聖冰凍，傭兵可以裝備“末日”符文之語。以上是針對純召喚師的，而不是針對實用流派的。我現在就打算測試一下，給普通難度1的鐵匠點1點“束縛”，不點“血誓”，讓他被血腥山麓5地獄難度1階段的投石車的毒雲擊中。只要我避開其他類型的投石車，我應該就能確定1階段和8階段的生命值成長差異。我會報告我自己的測試結果：在地獄難度下，0%抗性/0%中毒持續時間縮短（+100%抗性/+100%中毒持續時間縮短），24秒內造成363點傷害。所以，如果對手是-50%抗性/0%中毒持續時間縮短的鐵匠，24秒內應該能造成544點傷害，並且在P1階段就能從滿血狀態擊殺他。但現在要測試P8階段，因為要嘗試一個幾乎不可能的任務：讓這個傢伙中毒，但不能受到其他傷害。如果他被標記，我會傳送回城鎮（/e）。另外，我不確定P8階段投石車的傷害是否會受到+43.75%的加成。所以我只能測試一下大致的數值。第一次是在P1階段綁定他，然後在P8階段（ /e）費了九牛二虎之力才讓投石車切換到中毒狀態。 P1階段綁定的鐵匠在中毒約18-20秒後死亡。這與他受到的傷害計算結果相符，現在開始P8階段的測試。我先在P8普通難度下抓他，然後再把他帶到P1地獄難度。第一次測試確認：他只損失了大約30%的生命值，而不是100%。 ~~ So extra testing should be unnecessary with that, we can establish that indeed a monster bound in a P8 game will have 4.5x the HP when you bring it to other games, locking in the base HP multiplier, and presumably also the base damage. That also means the rapid reroll method for getting a cursed TZ monster will only have 22% of the HP of a P8 monster. So you NEED to get it in a P8 game 因此，無需進行額外的測試。我們可以確定，在P8遊戲中綁定的怪物，在轉移到其他遊戲中時，其生命值會是P8怪物的4.5倍，基礎生命值倍率和基礎傷害倍率也基本保持不變。這也意味著，透過快速重置獲得詛咒的TZ怪物，其生命值只有P8怪物的22%。所以，你必須在P8遊戲中獲得它。 (這裡傷害應該有錯後面有人提出) ※page13 Two very important information has been released by llamasc. Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N76YZ0ayqX4zauRGX2KvagL6D3PlXLSzq-oGmJoU4HI/edit?usp=drivesdk Demon gets resummoned every time you join the game (it’s not being snapshotted) Demon keeps p8 life stats Check the linked google sheet drafted by mrllamasc’s team (i got the link from his youtube post). I accidentally set it restricted access but now should be able to open through the link. They tested that only p8 life persists but damage and ar stats. Also tested demon gets resummoned with your bind demon level everytime you join the game so no need to max lvl bind demon when you capture it 請查看 MrLlamaSC 團隊起草的 Google 表格（連結是從他的 YouTube 貼文中取得的）。我之前不小心設成了限制存取，但現在應該可以透過連結開啟了。測試結果如下：他們測試後發現，只有 P8（8人難度）下的血量（Life）會持續保留，但傷害（Damage）和準確率（AR）等數據則不會。另外也測試出，每次進入遊戲時，惡魔都會根據你當下的「綁定惡魔」技能等級重新召喚，所以捕捉惡魔時，不需要非得在最高等級的狀態下進行。 (原po回應上面這段回文) Yeah we tested the latter part earlier, but still need to have level 20+ bind since it locks in affixes The base damage, if it is or isn't getting locked in at binding for P1 vs P8, would be an unnoticeably insignificant portion of damage anyway. IE the difference between (127+1718) and (182+1718) not worth testing for anyway 沒錯，我們之前也測試過後者，但仍然需要將「綁定惡魔」等級提升到 20 級以上，因為這會決定（鎖定）惡魔的詞綴（Affixes）。至於基礎傷害的部分，無論是在 P1 還是 P8 難度下綁定是否會被鎖定，其影響的傷害佔比都微乎其微，幾乎察覺不到。例如：(127+1718) 與 (182+1718) 之間的差距，根本不值得特地去測試。 ※page14 ;My demons are absorbing about 67% of my damage, and trust me - they can die ;in HC :) That's a mistake. Only hard points in blood oath work, so you can't have -67% dmg, the skill is lying to you. ;我的惡魔吸收了我大約 67% 的傷害，相信我——它們在專家模式下也會死的 :) 這是個錯誤。只有血誓中的硬點才會生效，所以你不可能有-67%的傷害減免，這個技能在騙你。 ※page15 ;Can i get rogue spear with conviction aura? ;Also how its survivability on p5 cows? Regular one? ;Also can i get dens rogue with convi? if you're doing the cursed tz method, you just bind every non unique non minion spear woman in A5 until you get one with conviction aura. Do they die? Yes my P1 one has died twice and when that happens its always in super crowded rooms full of projectiles flying everywhere. Just get a p8 one since apparently they keep their playing setting hp and it should never die. ;我能獲得帶有信念光環的盜賊長矛嗎？ ;它在P5乳牛場上的生存能力如何？普通的乳牛場嗎？ ;我還能獲得帶有信念光環的巢穴盜賊嗎？如果你用的是詛咒之源（Curdes the Zh）方法，那就得在A5裡綁定所有非唯一、非召喚物的長矛女，直到拿到一個帶信念光環的為止。她們會死嗎？是的，我的P1長矛女已經死了兩次，而且每次都是在人超級多、彈幕亂飛的房間裡。乾脆弄一個P8的吧，據說她們會保留初始血量，應該不會死。 ※page16 ;what is an act5 guest monster? ;I should be farming for the speargirl in frigig/frozen river/ancients way and ;wsk1? what about matrons den? what is matrons den? ;obv tz for the above would be ideal guest monsters are random % chance monsters that spawn in act 5 with souped up abilities, blunderbores for example have 22% chance to spawn in frigid highlands or pit of acheron matron's den is the uber quest area with lilith, and has 400-500% base hp monsters but they are stuck at area level 83 because you can't terrorize it ;第五幕的客串怪物是什麼？ ;我應該去弗里吉格/冰封之河/遠古之路和世界之眼1刷槍女嗎？女祭司巢穴呢？女祭司巢 ;穴是什麼？ ;顯然，如果能找到上述地點就太好了。客串怪物是第五幕中隨機出現的怪物，它們擁有更強的能力。例如，火鈳有22%的幾率在冰封高地或阿刻戎深淵的母巢中生成。母巢是莉莉絲所在的超級任務區域，其中的怪物基礎生命值高達400-500%，但由於無法使用恐嚇技能，它們的等級被限制在83級。 ~~~ ;does anyone know how the bind skill and passive work with level? i mean if i ;enter in a game with level 50 in all skills the bind demon will have the ;stats of lvl 50 skill, ok if i take out all my gcs after enter game, he lose ;the stats? or keep since i do not summon again? Everytime you enter a new game he resummons with the skills, if you take out gcs after entering game he doesn't lose stats. ;有人知道綁定技能和被動技能的等級是如何運作的嗎？我的意思是，如果我所有技能都升 ;到50級進入遊戲，綁定惡魔的屬性也會是50級技能的屬性。如果我進入遊戲後取出所有召 ;喚獸，它的屬性會消失嗎？還是會保留，因為我沒有再召喚？每次進入新遊戲，他都會帶著技能重新召喚，如果在進入遊戲後取出 GC，他不會失去屬性。 ※page17 ;so I farmed ancients way TZ until I found a cursed one and just got a tz95 ;regular spear woman. I have high skills, so she is a beast now. How can I ;make her better? She wasn't unique/champion, just a regular mob. She is ;immune to lightning. Is it possible to get a better roll? Like a spear woman ;immune to 2 things instead of one? Could she theoretically have more ;attributes as well? Well for normal pvm purposes the best possible spearwoman you could get is a TZ 96 natural cursed + aura enchanted, TZ affix irrelevant, but that's incredibly rare. And then the only advantage over a normal spearwoman upgraded to unique is the extraneous affixes she could have, mostly stone skin for +50% dr, which can increase her from 49% DR with buffs -> 99% DR and be virtually immune, not fully immune but taking negligible damage- but she's already virtually unkillable even with 33% DR. Same reason a matron's den spearwoman isn't superior even though it has 400-500% hp and more base damage- its lower level so less chance to hit. Blood boil builds have to care about monster hp and regen so they should use urdars. Any build other than blood boil still should have 20 blood oath and an unkillable demon even if its 1 point bind demon, so in all other cases (pure summoner, ES warlock, fire warlock, etc) spearwoman would be #1 option, and TZ 96 spearwoman still has such overkill HP & regen she's better than an urdar. So basically the TZ 96 spearwoman basic mob is more or less the best you're going to get. It doesn't really matter if she gets other affixes if they're redundant effects. You could have a 99% dr stone skin but does it make a difference if the 49% dr version heals faster than it takes damage even vs ubers? She can be cold immune with any cold enchantment (50% base cold resist on all versions), but eh, too few monsters deal cold damage to slow her and they normally last a fraction of a second anyway. ;所以我刷遠古之路，直到我刷到一隻詛咒怪，然後就出了個95級的普通長矛女。我的技能 ;等級很高，所以她現在很強。我該怎麼提升她呢？她不是精英怪/冠軍怪，只是個普通怪 ;物。她免疫閃電。有可能刷出更好的屬性嗎？例如免疫兩種傷害而不是一種？理論上她還 ;能擁有更多屬性嗎？ (原po:) 對於一般玩家對戰怪物（PVM）而言，你能獲得的最佳長矛女戰士是96級TZ自然詛咒+光環附魔的長矛女戰士（TZ詞綴無關緊要），但這極為罕見。她相比普通長矛女戰士升級到傳奇裝備的唯一優勢在於她可以擁有額外的詞綴，主要是石膚術（+50%傷害減免），這可以將她的傷害減免從49%（含增益）提升到99%，幾乎免疫傷害——雖然並非完全免疫，但受到的傷害微乎其微——但即使只有33%的傷害減免，她幾乎無法殺死她。同樣的道理，女族長巢穴的長矛女戰士雖然擁有400-500%的生命值和更高的基礎傷害，但等級較低，命中率也較低，因此並不比長矛女戰士更勝一籌。嗜血流派需要考慮怪物的生命值和生命回复，所以他們應該使用烏爾達長矛女戰士。除了血沸流派之外，其他任何流派都應該點滿20級血誓，並且召喚一個不死惡魔（即使只是1 級束縛惡魔）。因此，在其他所有情況下（純召喚師、能量護盾術士、火焰術士等等），長矛女戰士都是首選。 96層地下城的長矛女戰士擁有過剩的生命值和回應能力，甚至比烏爾達還要強。所以基本上，96層地下城的基礎怪物長矛女戰士已經是你能得到的最佳選擇。如果其他詞綴效果重複，那她獲得這些詞綴也無關緊要。你可以給她一個99%傷害減免的石膚，但如果49%傷害減免的版本即使面對超級怪物也能更快地回復生命值，那又有什麼區別呢？她可以通過任何冰霜附魔免疫冰霜傷害（所有版本都有50%的基礎冰霜抗性），但是，能造成冰霜傷害的怪物太少，不足以減速她，而且這些怪物通常持續時間很短。 ~~~ ;so you are basically saying a normal monster +my maxed bind demon is pretty ;much as good as finding a champion pack with stuff already on it? that is ;helpful, I have been trying to only farm champions that have affixes already ;thanks for the reply bro What's been unclear is whether normal monsters upgraded to uniques get the 2x health of a unique or not, but that doesn't matter much when its functionally unkillable with astronomical HP/regen. But since monster affixes are mostly irrelevant, yes the normal mobs are just about identical to the unique. The ones that would matter are extra fast & extra strong for the speed / 99% ed, and aura enchanted. You get all those by just having 20 bind demon. The other affixes are either do-nothing or very minor bonuses Mana burn does nothing in pvm, just 20% magic resist but that's totally irrelevant. I have no idea if teleportation even functions, melee monsters don't teleport above 30% hp and so you'd have to blood boil them down, they might heal but eh, it would be an annoyance at best Magic resistant doesn't matter much, unless it gives a cold immunity it can be sometimes helpful. Spectral hit is a tiny upside or downside in that it gives cold damage sometimes, which slows but also shatters corpses. Same issue of resists irrelevant. And your demon already gets spectral hit, so again doesn't matter Multiple shots does nothing because you really really really shouldn't use a ranged mob to begin with, melee mobs don't get it Fire enchanted adds an irrelevant amount of damage and a redundant resist/immunity. Then we have; Cold enchanted is a minor upside if it gives an immunity so cold damage won't slow your demon, same as magic resist. And since it slows on every hit that can be helpful, but because it shatters corpses that can prevent engorge or allied horking. Lightning enchanted is a minor upside because the lightning bolts released when struck will carry over the cursed aoe. This is pretty redundant with a holy damage aura, BUT a build using a cursed + conviction demon could care about it. Stone skin gives the minor upside of %dr and/or immune to physical and extra defense, all of which are pretty irrelevant when your monster is already unkillable. Pretty much only damage that can even reduce monsters is crushing blow from urdars, and %dr / immunity does mitigate that. Basically, none of these matter. Lightning enchanted might be the most relevant in general, just increasing the rate of spreading curse. I haven't tested if the invisible glitchy lightning+cold and/or fire enchanted explosions carry over to demons, but this requires them to be put into hit recovery not just struck, hence could only hit snakes/suicide minions/charge zombies/urdars/lister in PvM or require a hostile warcry barb or whatever to set up with a lengthy stun timer. ;所以你的意思是，一個普通怪物加上我滿級的束縛惡魔，效果幾乎和找到一個自帶詞綴的 ;冠軍包一樣好？這很有幫助，我一直都在嘗試只刷自帶詞綴的冠軍， ;謝謝你的回复，兄弟。 (原:) 一直不清楚的是，普通怪物升級成稀有怪物後，是否能獲得稀有怪物兩倍的生命值，但考慮到它們擁有天文數字般的生命值/回复速度，幾乎無法被殺死，這一點其實無關緊要。由於怪物詞綴大多無關緊要，所以普通怪物和稀有怪物幾乎完全相同。真正重要的詞綴是速度超快、攻擊力超強（速度/99%增強傷害）以及附魔光環。這些詞綴只需20個束縛惡魔就能獲得。其他詞綴要么毫無作用，要么增益微乎其微。法力燃燒在PVM中毫無用處，只提供20%的魔法抗性，但這完全無關緊要。我不知道傳送是否有效，近戰怪物生命值低於30%時不會傳送，所以你必須用血沸術把它們的生命值降下來，它們或許會回血，但充其量也只是有點煩人而已。魔法抗性意義不大，除非它能提供冰凍免疫，否則偶爾會有點用。幽靈打擊的優點或缺點在於它有時會造成冰霜傷害，這會減緩敵人的速度，但也會粉碎屍體。抗性問題同樣無關緊要。而且你的惡魔已經擁有幽靈打擊，所以這無關緊要。多重射擊毫無意義，因為你本來就不應該使用遠程怪物，近戰怪物也不會受到此效果影響。火焰附魔增加的傷害微乎其微，而且抗性/免疫效果也顯得多餘。接下來是冰霜附魔，如果它能提供免疫效果，使冰霜傷害不會減緩你的惡魔的速度，那麼它就略有優勢，魔法抗性也是如此。由於它每次攻擊都會造成減速效果，這可能很有用，但由於它會粉碎屍體，因此可能會阻止吞噬或盟友的狂暴。閃電附魔也略佔優勢，因為被擊中時釋放的閃電會延續詛咒的範圍效果。這與神聖傷害光環相當多餘，但使用詛咒+信念惡魔的構築可能會用到它。石膚術提供少量傷害減免和/或物理免疫以及額外防禦，但當你的怪物已經無敵時，這些優勢幾乎毫無意義。幾乎唯一能削弱怪物的傷害只有烏爾達的壓碎性打擊，而傷害減免/ 免疫也只能暫時緩解這種效果。總之，這些都無關緊要。閃電附魔或許是最有用的，因為它能提高詛咒的傳播速度。我還沒測試過隱形的閃電+冰霜和/或火焰附魔爆炸效果是否對惡魔有效，但這需要惡魔進入攻擊恢復狀態，而不僅僅是被擊中，因此在PvM中只能擊中蛇/自爆小兵/衝鋒殭屍/烏爾達/利斯特，或者需要敵對的戰吼野蠻人或其他職業配合較長的眩暈時間才能觸發。 ~~~ ;isn't holy freeze also as good as light enchanted? It is funny...I actually ;got a regular trash mob a5 spearwoman light enchant this morning from tz95 ;cursed zone (I have max bind demon so it got a aura). This is as good as HF ;right? maybe less because technically we value slowing attacks in pvm, but ;honestly still prettty good as holy fire right? We're implying that you're getting cursed + aura enchanted on all these bound demons, and talking about the other mods you could get, like elemental enchanted / stone skin / mana burn / etc Since you can get cursed + aura enchanted from normal mobs in cursed TZ, there's not much benefit to searching for much harder to obtain unique enemies, because the other affixes they could have like lightning enchanted don't do much of the three holy damage auras, holy freeze has the upside of slowing enemies as a defense. But it also has the downside that slowed enemies move into your aoe slower and block other enemies out of range, and holy freeze won't hit act bosses and get the 75% chance to curse them each tick that holy fire/shock have. Holy fire and holy shock have identical uses for spreading curse, but holy fire has slightly larger aoe because its higher level. ;聖冰術不也和附魔光明一樣好用嗎？真有趣…我今天早上在95層詛咒地帶打到了一個普通 ;的A5級長矛女怪，附魔了光明（我的束縛惡魔技能已經滿了，所以它有光環）。這和聖火 ;術一樣好用吧？或許略遜一籌，因為在PVM中我們更看重減速攻擊，但說實話，它仍然和 ;聖火術一樣好用，對吧？我們指的是你從這些被束縛的惡魔身上獲得的詛咒+光環附魔，並且我們還在討論你可能獲得的其他詞綴，例如元素附魔/石膚/法力燃燒等等。由於你可以在詛咒區域（TZ）的普通怪物身上獲得詛咒+光環附魔，因此尋找更難獲得的獨特敵人意義不大，因為它們可能擁有的其他詞綴（例如閃電附魔）對三種神聖傷害光環的傷害影響不大。神聖冰凍的優點在於可以減速敵人作為防御手段，但缺點是被減速的敵人會更慢地進入你的範圍攻擊，並且會阻擋其他敵人進入攻擊範圍。此外，神聖冰凍無法攻擊章節首領，也無法像神聖火焰/神聖震擊那樣，每跳都有75%的幾率詛咒他們。神聖火焰和神聖震擊在傳播詛咒方面用途相同，但神聖火焰的範圍略大，因為它等級更高。 ※page18 無用冷知識最無用惡魔 Also going to add a FFF tier with a single entry Frenzied Hell Spawn, only those created by Hell Whips in Arreat Plateau and maybe a few other demon tagged overseers, are indeed bindable. It take some finesse, only really works if you can get them to spawn on the opposite side of a wall from you and pick off anything they'd aggro upon conversion including wall sections/towers and have a way to damage them for a small enough amount because they have only 20-40% of the areas base HP but still have some regen. The difference between this pokemon and a Voltorb is that his Self-Destruct deals about 0 damage and he doesn't just 'faint'... 此外，我還要新增一個 FFF 等級，其中包含一個名為「狂暴地獄之子」的寶可夢。只有由亞瑞特高原的地獄鞭怪以及其他一些被標記為惡魔的監督者召喚出來的狂暴地獄之子才能被束縛。這需要一些技巧，只有當你能讓它們生成在你對面的牆後，並消滅它們轉化後會攻擊的任何目標（包括牆體/塔樓）時，才能真正奏效。而且，你還需要有辦法對它們造成足夠小的傷害，因為它們只有區域基礎生命值的 20-40%，但仍然有一定的回復能力。這隻寶可夢和頑皮彈的區別在於，它的自爆幾乎不造成任何傷害，而且它不會像頑皮彈那樣「昏厥」… ~~~ 這頁原PO 還有提到遠程射擊的攻擊薄弱，之前幾頁也有提過遠程ai有點鳥這則跟下則主要是探討魅魔 vs 多重射擊 ~~~ also I tested all the ranged mobs in the game by just save editing the same bound demon with multiple shots - there aren't many ranged demons anyway- and indeed can confirm that; all the demons that cast elemental spells (fallen shamans, fetish shamna, balrogs, demon imps) deal negligible damage / their base unscaled skill damage blowdart fetishes also deal negligible damage, apparently using skill damage instead of a1/a2 damage, too bad corrupted archers & succubi are the only two demons classes dealing significant ranged damage. For some reason, succubi are appearing to deal significantly more even though I'm spreading amp damage on targets and that should scale physical damage more (or if its adding phys to the magic, the two should be nearly identical) I'm trying to make sure all 3 missiles connect, maybe there is a nextdelay for arrows that doesn't exist for blood star? That or just their spread might be higher, arrows are faster and no time to penetrate for nextdelay. I could look it up in missiles.txt but that's a pain to navigate Furthermore, I encountered a weird glitch where dark archers failed to cast/attack at all. She did her bow shooting animation and no missiles. No damage dealt, they aren't invisible. Sometimes locked up for 10+ seconds. If I teleport her away and reset she can fire. Either way, its very clearly that succubi are dealing way more damage than dark rangers, and are the only ranged attacker with any kind of reliable damage at all. My guess is just because the blood stars are actually connecting and dark ranger arrows aren't because nextdelay / spread / glitching / smaller missile size Overall this is mediocre damage. Melee attacks with that same +skills swap gear are hitting for 23000+ damage before amp. This succubi is presumably hitting something like ~5000 magic when all 3 blood stars connect But hey that's definitely nice compared to other ranged mobs not even making enemy hp bars move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGlSCeRdRJA

我還測試了遊戲中所有遠程怪物，方法是修改同一個被束縛的惡魔的存檔，用它進行多次射擊——反正遠程惡魔也不多——結果確實如此：所有會施放元素法術的惡魔（墮落薩滿、圖騰薩滿、炎魔、惡魔小鬼）造成的傷害都微乎其微，它們的基礎技能傷害（未加成）也微乎其微乎其微，它們的基礎技能傷害（未加成）也微乎其微。圖騰吹箭造成的傷害似乎也微乎其微，顯然是使用了技能傷害而不是A1/A2 技能的傷害。可惜的是，墮落弓箭手和魅魔是僅有的兩個能造成顯著遠程傷害的惡魔職業。不知為何，魅魔造成的傷害似乎要高得多，即使我對目標施加了增幅傷害，而增幅傷害應該會更多地提升物理傷害（或者如果它是將物理傷害加到魔法傷害上，那麼兩者的傷害應該幾乎相同）。我正在努力確保所有三枚箭矢都能命中目標，也許箭矢有血星所沒有的延遲？也可能是因為她們的箭矢擴散範圍較大，速度較快，沒有時間穿透目標（例如，沒有延遲生效）。我可以去missiles.txt檔案裡查一下，但那檔案太難用了。此外，我還遇到了一個奇怪的bug，黑暗弓箭手完全無法施法/攻擊。她做了射箭動畫，但沒有發射任何箭矢。沒有造成任何傷害，而且箭矢也不是隱形的。有時候會卡住10秒以上。如果我把她傳送走再重置遊戲，她就能正常攻擊了。總之，很明顯魅魔造成的傷害遠高於黑暗遊俠，而且是唯一能穩定造成傷害的遠程攻擊者。我猜測是因為魅魔的血星箭矢能夠命中目標，而黑暗遊俠的箭矢由於延遲生效、箭矢擴散、bug或箭矢體積較小等原因無法命中。總的來說，魅魔的傷害很一般。使用相同的技能切換裝備，近戰攻擊在增幅前就能造成 23000以上的傷害。這魅魔的三個血星全部命中時，估計能造成約5000點魔法傷害。不過，跟其他遠程怪物連敵人血條都動不了相比，這已經很不錯了。 ~~~ This thread needs yet another addendum Turns out the act 5 variant of urdars have only 3 damage regen and lose -25% regen compared to the acts 2-4 versions which all have 4 damage regen. Normal monsters have 1.22%/s, urdars from act 5 have 1.83%/s, urdars from acts 2-4 have 2.44%/s So this creates the tradeoff that act 5 urdars have 200% hp / 75% dr / 160% ar / 3 regen, while acts 2-4 urdars have 230% hp / 55% dr / 110% ar / 4 regen For a blood boil build in particular the extra regen matters more than the hp/dr/ar, and the cold immune variant found in Tal Rasha's Tomb, in P8 TZ96 cursed games, will now be the #1 option imo So my recommendation has changed from frigid highlands urdar (very hard to get, 22% per game) to tal's tomb (much easier, 42% per tomb, 7 tombs per game, 97%+ chance to get one) 這個帖子還需要補充說明。原來第 5 幕的烏爾達變種只有3 點傷害回复，與第 2-4 幕的版本相比，回复速度降低了 25%，而第 2-4 幕的版本都有4 點傷害回复。一般怪物每秒回覆1.22%，第五幕的烏爾達每秒回覆1.83%，第二至第四幕的烏爾達每秒回覆2.44%。因此，第五幕的烏爾達擁有200%生命值/75%傷害減免/160%攻擊命中/3點生命回复，而第二至第四幕的烏爾達擁有230%生命值/55%傷害減免/110%攻擊命中/4點生命回复。對於沸血流派來說，額外的生命回復比生命值/傷害減免/攻擊命中更重要。在我看來，在 P8 TZ96詛咒遊戲中，塔拉夏之墓中出現的冰冷免疫變種烏爾達將是最佳選擇。所以我的推薦已經從冰霜高地的烏爾達（非常難獲得，每局22%）改為塔拉夏之墓的烏爾達（容易得多，每個墓穴42%，每局7個墓穴）。獲得它的幾率超過97%） ※page19 ;Quote (L8z. @ Mar 15 2026 01:56pm) ;so we should be farming urdars in act2 for BIS tz urder binds? ;do most people just bind rare mobs? I hunt for spearwomen in act5 ancients ;way but can never find a rare mob of them, just plain, so I bind them. well I still think its specifically urdar a2-4 is best for blood boil, spearwoman is best for non-blood boil unless for some reason you're skipping max blood oath you might want a higher hp like heph or furnace of pain venom lord or just vile mothers for extra meat shields. I was explaining just 2 pages back in this thread that there's really not much use for unique mobs, although I haven't tested if the normal mobs upgraded to unique are getting the same 2x base HP so I can't confirm that yet, need to test for sure otherwise all the random affixes you could get are either irrelevant or pretty minor bonuses at best. Extra fast, extra strong, aura enchanted, spectral hit, teleportation all do effectively nothing. Mana burn does +20% magic resist which is irrelevant, fire enchanted gives a pretty irrelevant immunity and negligible damage. Stone skin & magic resistant can give decent defenses or immunities but it doesn't matter much if the demon is functionally immortal, though cold immunity is a minor bonus. Lightning enchanted is the 'best' but still pretty minor- the bolts released when hit will spread curse procs. The champion bonuses are actually more meaningful because they get some serious +% ed / % frw that stacks, but they can't be cursed + aura by any means I know. So too bad. So my current recommendation for blood boil builds would be to find a P8 game with cursed TZ, then go hunt tal rasha's tombs for the cold immune urdars because they have higher regen + cold immune, which is worth more than the %life/ar/dr on act 5 version. Binding plain spearwomen definitely works for the highest dps, but their low regen and low base life does mean they can die on a blood boil build and don't regen life to offset boil usage as much as urdars do ;所以我們應該在第二幕刷烏爾達人來取得畢業裝備嗎？ ;大多數人都是直接綁定稀有怪嗎？我在第五幕遠古之路刷女矛兵，但從來沒遇過稀有怪， ;只有普通的，所以只能綁定。我仍然認為，對於血沸副本來說，烏爾達A2-4是最佳選擇；而對於非血沸副本，女矛兵則是最佳選擇。除非你出於某種原因跳過了血誓等級上限，否則你可能需要像赫菲斯托斯、痛苦熔爐、毒液領主或邪惡之母這樣生命值更高的怪物來提供額外的肉盾。我之前在這個帖子裡解釋過，獨特怪物其實沒什麼用，雖然我還沒測試過普通怪物升級為獨特怪物後是否也能獲得同樣的2倍基礎生命值，所以暫時無法確認。我需要測試一下才能確定，否則所有隨機詞綴要么毫無意義，要么最多只能提供微不足道的加成。「超快」、「超強」、「光環附魔」、「幽靈打擊」、「傳送」這些詞綴其實都沒什麼用。「法力燃燒」提供的20%魔法抗性幾乎可以忽略不計，「火焰附魔」提供的免疫效果微乎其微，傷害也微乎其微。石膚和魔法抗性可以提供不錯的防禦或免疫，但如果惡魔實際上是不死的，這些就沒什麼意義了，儘管冰霜免疫算是一個小小的加成。閃電附魔是「最佳」選擇，但效果仍然微乎其微——被擊中時釋放的閃電會擴散詛咒觸發效果。冠軍的加成實際上更有意義，因為它們能獲得可疊加的強力傷害/快速移動百分比加成，但據我所知，它們無法同時被詛咒和光環加成。真是可惜。因此，我目前對血沸流派的建議是，找一個帶有詛咒的TZ的P8遊戲，然後去塔拉夏之墓獵殺冰霜免疫的烏爾達，因為它們擁有更高的生命回復和冰霜免疫，這比第五幕版本的生命 /攻擊抗性/傷害減免百分比更有價值。束縛平原女矛兵確實能帶來最高的DPS，但她們較低的生命回復和基礎生命值意味著她們在血沸流派中容易死亡，而且不像烏爾達人那樣能透過生命回復來抵消血沸的消耗。 ~~~ ;is it possible the game doesn't spawn with udars? how do you know? Each area only spawns with 3 types of mobs out of its possible types. Act 5 areas spawn with 1 ranged mob and then 2 other melee or ranged. Durance has 4 possible, so its a 75% chance to have urdars. But only 22% each for either act 5 area- frigid or acheron- to have urdars. Tals tombs is 7 to choose from, each level of palace / harem has 5. Hence virtually guaranteed to be in at least 1 of the palace cellar or tals tombs ;遊戲有可能不生成烏達爾嗎？你是怎麼知道的？每個區域只會從所有可能的怪物類型中隨機產生3種。第五幕區域會生成1個遠程怪物，然後是2個近戰或遠程怪物。杜蘭斯有4種可能的怪物類型，因此有75%的機率出現烏爾達。但第五幕的兩個區域──冰封之地和阿刻戎──出現烏爾達的機率都只有22%。塔爾斯的陵墓有7種怪物類型可供選擇，宮殿/後宮的每一層都有5種。因此，幾乎可以肯定你會在宮殿地窖或塔拉夏陵墓中至少遇到一隻烏爾達。 ~~~ ;I had the idea that even bosses are not affected by holy freeze, they would ;get amped. They died so fast that i forgot about that. ;WRONG ;With my cold cursed urdar, that sticks to me, i was teleing near mephisto ;again and again, so i was in range but the urdar couldn't attack him. He ;couldn't get amped. Yep all act bosses and their uber/clone variants have the primeevil tag and are not affected by holy freeze. Not just no slow, no damage, hence no amp. Its a really minor concern for holy freeze applying amp to them since demon attacks can still do it in a few swings, and your warlocks damage should be super overkill on anything less than p8 diablo/baal. It is more of a question whether you actually want holy freeze slowing down monsters or whether you'd rather have them funneling towards you faster. Thats the argument for holy fire. If you felt remotely threatened by pvm damage the slow would be an autoinclude but warlocks are so stupidly tanky maybe you dont need to care ;我之前以為即使是首領也不會受到神聖冰凍的影響，反而會獲得強化。他們死得太快，我 ;都忘了這茬了。 ;結果大錯特錯！ ;我的冰霜詛咒烏爾達（Urdar）會一直跟著我，我反覆傳送到墨菲斯托（Mephisto）附近 ;，所以雖然我始終在攻擊範圍內，但烏爾達卻無法攻擊他。它沒有獲得強化。是的，所有章節首領及其究極/克隆變體都帶有「始祖」標籤，不受神聖冰凍的影響。不僅不會減速，也不會受到傷害，因此也不會獲得傷害加成。神聖冰凍對它們施加傷害加成其實並不重要，因為惡魔的攻擊幾下就能造成傷害，而且術士的傷害對於除了P8迪亞波羅 /巴爾之外的任何怪物來說都應該綽綽有餘。更關鍵的問題是，你是否真的想要神聖冰凍減速怪物，還是更希望它們更快地向你湧來。這就是神聖之火的優勢。如果你覺得受到PVM傷害的威脅，那麼減速效果是必選的，但術士的坦度實在太高了，或許你根本不在乎。 ※page20 ;So, after reading through the whole thread, I’m still not entirely sure what ;the best setup for a pure summoner is. From what I’ve understand, you can't ;get the full benefit from Fanaticism because Bind Demon already hits the AS ;and AR caps, but I'm not sure. For me, it seems that when he has fanaticism ;or I press Engorge, he attacks faster. In addition, if we already reach the ;AS cap without Fanaticism, does that mean we don't need to take Engorge to ;level 21 with +skills to reach the 35% AS cap? ;On the other side, it seems Holy Freeze doesn't work well against bosses (but ;yes in pvm). ;So, would you say a Dark Lancer Cursed + Holy Fire is the way to go? Or ;should we stick with Cursed + Fanaticism to boost the damage for both the ;demon and the merc (who’s usually running Pride)? ;Another doubt I have is if Amplify Damage "double dips" with Defilers. ;I mean, for example, if the primary target takes 10k damage and the Defiler ;transfers, lets say 50%, a normal target would receive 5k. But if this second ;target is also cursed, would it then take 10k as well? ;If this is how it works, it's clear that pulse auras are the most ;cost-effective option for scaling damage... From my gameplay it seems like Defiler damage share ignores resistances? As in, immune monsters still seem to take damage from whatever damage type they are immune to is shared to them. My guess would then be that Amp does not double dip. But I have not tested this at all, it's just anecdotal from my gameplay and I could be completely wrong here. ;看完整個文章後，我仍然不太確定純召喚師的最佳配置是什麼。據我理解，由於「束縛惡 ;魔」已經達到了攻擊速度和攻擊等級上限，所以無法完全發揮「狂熱」的全部效果，但我 ;不太確定。對我來說，似乎當惡魔開啟「狂熱」或我按下「吞噬」時，他的攻擊速度會更 ;快。此外，如果即使沒有「狂熱」也能達到攻擊速度上限，那是不是意味著我們不需要把 ;「吞噬」升到21級並加技能點來達到35%的攻擊速度上限？ ;另一方面，「神聖冰凍」似乎對付頭目效果不佳（但在PvM中效果不錯）。 ;那麼，您認為「黑暗長矛手詛咒+神聖之火」是最佳選擇嗎？還是應該堅持使用「詛咒+狂 ;熱」來同時提升惡魔和傭兵（通常使用「驕傲」）的傷害？ ;我還有一個疑問，就是「傷害增幅」是否會對「褻瀆者」造成雙重傷害。 ;我的意思是，舉個例子，如果主要目標受到10000點傷害，而褻瀆者轉移了50%的傷害，那 ;麼普通目標會受到5000點傷害。但如果這個第二個目標也被詛咒了，它也會受到10000點 ;傷害嗎？ ;如果真是這樣，很明顯脈衝光環是提升傷害性價比最高的選擇… 從我的遊戲體驗來看，褻瀆者的傷害分攤似乎無視於抗性？也就是說，免疫的怪物似乎仍然會受到分攤到它們身上的傷害。我猜測，如果真是這樣，那麼增幅效果應該不會重複生效。但我並沒有對此進行任何測試，這只是我遊戲體驗中的個人感受，我的猜測可能完全錯誤。 ※page22 ;;Quote (Thoroku92 @ Mar 17 2026 02:19pm) ;;This afternoon I did some testing when Durance of Hate became TZ, and from ;;what I could see, a Mauler with Holy Freeze aura attacked slower than a ;;Mauler with Fanaticism, the difference was clearly visible to my eyes... ;; ;;Can anyone else confirm this and that there isn't a cap in AS that forces us ;;to stop using Fanaticism if we're a pure summoner? +% ias is definitely capped at +75%. My current ladder setup is 45 demonic mastery (+49%) and 48 engorge (+35%) so its capped out after every engorge ;Quote (FoldersUnite @ Mar 17 2026 02:33pm) ;Any intel whether binding a tz unique cursed mob vs a regular cursed tz mob ;makes a difference? They have differing hp values I’m guessing (unique dies ;slower as an enemy) Still needs to be tested and its not exactly an easy thing to test. I guess simplest way would be to test normal mode enemies with small HP ranges against fairly constant DPS poison like that act 5 catapult, but its really a pain to get it to fire the catapults. Most monsters have about a 60-100% hp range so its really hard to tell if its getting double hp or not. Blunderbores in act 2 palace cellar might be a good case, they have 102-128 base HP and 0% all resists, their high regen disabled by poison. Normal mode areas tend to have 0-1 uniques so its really hard to find them reliable, but cellar is tiny and same map, only 75% chance of urdars and 0-1 elites and 20% chance to be champion so uh 10% chance to find an elite urdar per map, a few resets and you could find one, but probably 3-5+ games before you do and who knows it might have some annoying affix. And somehow need to deal damage to it without instantly killing it, guess normal attack Again would need to test with a char with 0 blood oath for safest results The poison from hell catapults dealt ~363 damage over 24 seconds in my testing. So if you bound the blunderbore in P4 game it would have 255-320 hp if its not counted as unique, 510-640 hp for unique. Thus dying to a catapult in either 1 hit or surviving with 30%+ hp and regenerating. Note I haven't actually done this test, just explained the setup that would isolate for this question ;;今天下午我測試了一下，當「憎恨之殤」變成「時空裂縫」時，我發現一個裝備了「神聖 ;;冰凍」光環的巨魔攻擊速度比裝備了「狂熱」光環的巨魔慢，差別非常明顯…… ;; ;;有人能證實這一點嗎？還有，純召喚師的攻擊速度沒有上限，不會因此就不能使用「狂熱 ;;」光環嗎？ +%攻速上限肯定是+75%。我目前的天梯配置是45級惡魔精通（+49%）和48級吞噬（+35%），所以每次吞噬後攻速都會達到上限。 ;引用（FoldersUnite @ 2026年3月17日下午2:33） ;有沒有人知道綁定一個獨特的詛咒怪物和綁定一個普通的詛咒怪物會有什麼不同？我猜它 ;們的生命值不同（獨特的怪物作為敵人死亡速度較慢）。這還需要進一步測試，而且測試起來並不容易。我猜最簡單的方法是用普通模式下血量範圍小的敵人來測試，例如第五幕的投石車，它需要持續穩定的毒素傷害。但是要讓它發射投石車真的很難。大多數怪物的血量範圍在60%到100%之間，所以很難判斷它是否受到了雙倍傷害。第二幕宮殿地窖裡的火鐙或許是個不錯的例子，它們的基礎生命值在102到128之間，所有抗性為 0%，而且它們的高回復能力會被毒素抑制。普通模式區域通常只有0-1個獨特怪物，所以很難穩定地找到它們。地窖地圖很小，而且和普通模式一樣，只有75%的幾率出現烏爾達，0-1個精英怪物，以及20%的幾率出現冠軍級怪物。也就是說，每張地圖只有10%的幾率找到精英烏爾達。重置幾次或許能找到一個，但可能要玩3-5局甚至更多才能找到，而且誰知道它是不是帶有什麼煩人的詞綴。你還需要想辦法對它造成傷害，但又不能直接秒殺牠，我猜普通攻擊應該可以。為了確保結果的可靠性，我需要用一個沒有血誓的角色來測試。在我的測試中，地獄毒液投石車在24秒內造成了大約363點傷害。所以，如果你在P4模式下綁定了火錒，它的生命值在255-320之間（如果它不是獨特怪物的話），如果是獨特怪物的話，生命值在510-640之間。因此，要么被投石車一擊斃命，要么存活下來並保留 30% 以上的生命值並進行生命恢復。請注意，我並沒有實際進行這項測試，只是解釋了可以隔離此問題的設定。 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 101.12.162.121 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/DIABLO/M.1773792055.A.C67.html ※ 編輯: Yjizz (101.12.162.121 臺灣), 03/18/2026 08:02:07

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