PTT遊戲區 / PokemonGO (寶可夢GO)

[討論] The fall of Pokemon GO

看板PokemonGO (寶可夢GO)作者 (有瑋)時間9年前 (2016/10/15 11:51), 9年前編輯推噓296(336推 40噓 435→)
留言811則, 217人參與, 最新討論串1/2 (看更多)
最近的API改版在版上諸多討論， FastPokeMap是國外熱門的寶可夢地圖tracker 這篇文主要是想分享他們對於最近API改版的一些看法 1. 改版後閃退或者類格的原因 2. 雷達與遊戲正當性 原文出處: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sp6pkg 文章發表於 2016/10/13 -- The fall of Pokemon GO / 寶可夢的殞落 With the new API about to be fully reversed (It's still not done but shouldn't be much longer, definitely this week-end), there are a few points I'd like to discuss about the recent changes made by Niantic. 關於最近Niantic的改變，在新API全面破解的這時候 (是還沒破解不過應該不會太久，最 晚這周末)，幾個看法跟大家討論。 I understand about a company trying to keep the integrity of its game. As long as it doesn't hurt their userbase that is. Niantic has made pretty terrible choices lately and I believe they're self-sabotaging the game on purpose to try to to "control" the growth of their game. 我理解一間公司想維護遊戲公平性的心情，但前提是不能傷害你們的玩家客戶群(userbase )。Niantic最近的改版做出相當糟糕的選擇，我認為他們為了控制（control）他們家遊戲的發展而不惜有目的性得破壞遊戲本身。 For me, the tracking isn't the biggest issue with Pokemon GO, it's all the security measures Niantic is taking in trying to stop people from tinkering with their codebase which in turn hurts the real users. 對我來說，Pokemon GO遭遇的最大問題並不是雷達，而是Niantic加入的安全性措施，試圖 阻止人們去修補他們的程式資料庫(codebase)，卻反而傷害到真正的一般玩家。 Has anyone noticed how battery hungry the game has become after the 0.37.0 patch? How sluggish the game feels since 0.37? How the game doesn't run on some phone brands anymore unless you do advanced manipulations? 有人注意到0.37版之後遊戲變得特別耗電嗎? 0.37版後玩起來是不是感覺很頓? 有些廠牌 手機如果不做進階設定甚至會跑不動遊戲? Those are all measures they implemented to try to stop us, reverse engineers, from trying to understand their game protocol and logic. 這都是因為新改版，試圖阻止我們反向破解他們遊戲的內部邏輯跟演算法協定，而產生的影響。 Let's tackle the first issue, battery usage increase due to their obfuscation. 我們先來看看演算法屏障造成的耗電量問題 Prior to 0.37, to do 1+1, the only issued "command" was 1+1 (simplifying, this isn't how arm assembly works) , it was a single cpu cycle. Right now, to try to hide the real 1+1 from us, they do lots of random operation such as 5*39, 45/9.45, 1+1 , etc etc, which add a lot of cpu cycle aka battery usage + lag. 在0.37版以前，想做1+1就是直接輸入1+1的指令（舉個簡單的例子比較好懂），就是單純一個運算週期。 但現在，Niantic為了不讓我們做到1+1，他們在指令接收前加入很多隨機的運算子比如說 5*39,45/9.45,1+1之類的，虛耗多個運算週期去做這件事也直接導致了耗電+類格 This is why reversing the API has taken a long time this time around, this obfuscation adds lots of bogus code flow and instructions that are useless for the end result, they're just here to slow us down from trying to understanding the code. In the long run it doesn't stop us. But it stops older model phone from running the game smoothly because what was once a game that ran on almost most android 4.4+ is now a game that can be run smoothly on only 600+€ devices. 這也是為什麼要花這麼久時間來破解新API，這一類演算法屏障純粹只是試圖拖延我 們了解遊戲內部的邏輯，因而產生很多沒用的程式碼演算跟結果。就長時間來看這無法阻 止我們(這類的雷達)，但卻會導致舊手機無法順順得跑這個遊戲。 The second issue is SafetyNet which in my opinion is Niantic/Google's dumbest business decision. SafetyNet is like GameGuard for Android. It stops root and modified kernel from running the game. Side effect: Most chinese brand, blackberry are blocked without even being rooted. 第二個來討論安全網(SafetyNet)的問題。就我來看這是Niantic跟Google之間最不智的商業決定。安全網類似Android的遊戲守門員。執行遊戲時，SafetyNet禁止取得內核的最高權限並修改核心的IO資料(kernel)。 The android ecosystem is dev friendly and encoruages rooting as well. Cheaters don't need root to cheat. Reverse engineers can bypass safetynet easily to deobufscate & reverse engineer the code. Once again this security measure doesn't stop us but it stops legit users from playing. 安卓友善的環境相當鼓勵rooting。而開外掛的人不用root也能作弊。Reverse engineers 可以輕易繞過這個安全網。再強調一次，這一類的安全性措施無法阻擋我們但會影響到一 般玩家。 SafetyNet was meant as a measure to make Android Pay run only on trusted environment. It wasn't meant as an Anti Cheat system. 安全網是用來確保Android Pay運作在一個受信任的環境，而不是用來執行反作弊系統。 Now this is my message to Niantic: Keep obfuscating if you don't care about performance issue on your game, keep using SafetyNet if you want to block 5-6% of android phones. 以下是我給Niantic的訊息: 如果你們不在乎影響遊戲的使用者體驗那就繼續玩那些演算法 屏障(obfuscating)。如果你們不在乎5-6%的安卓用戶無法玩這個遊戲那就繼續 用安全網(SafetyNet)。 But don't be surprised if your userbase is tanking and don't be surprised about the huge backslash from the community. 但如果你的玩家客戶群因此流失或者崩潰，不要太意外。 Don't be another Hello Game. Listen to your community and open the api. You can still save Pokemon GO. 不要成為下一個Hello Game。聽聽玩家客戶群的聲音然後開放API，那仍然可以拯救 pokemon GO。 We'll keep reversing your game as long as your game is popular. FastPokeMap will continue to come back no matter how hard you try to kill it. But if you keep trying to kill it don't be surprised if soon there won't be anyone playing your game anymore. 只要你們的遊戲仍舊熱門，我們就會繼續破解你們的遊戲。 不論你們有多想毀掉雷達，FastPokeMap會持續奮戰。 但如果你們執意繼續這樣下去，別太意外接下來沒人玩你們家的遊戲。 The hotspot in my area used to have 300-400 people playing. Since all your changes + changing the api there are only 3-4people playing. The game is dying and it is all because of your poor choice to try to fight the wishes of your community. 我家附近的熱點以前大概有300-400個玩家，自從你們改版之後，只剩下3-4個人在玩。 你們缺乏謹慎的選擇正與玩家群的回饋背道而馳，這個遊戲正慢慢滅亡。 This is where you show off your true colors:. Are you making the game mostly for profits or for your community? 你們真正在乎的是什麼: 開發遊戲帶來的利益還是帶來的玩家群? -- 我認為這文章值得分享 翻譯有誤請大家指正 希望帶給大家不一樣的觀點 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 118.167.40.200 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PokemonGO/M.1476503462.A.EB7.html ※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 11:55:57
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10/15 11:56, , 1F
閱
10/15 11:56, 1F
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10/15 11:56, , 2F
看來0.37 0.39耗電超兇不是錯覺
10/15 11:56, 2F
※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 11:57:24
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10/15 11:57, , 3F
我只看的懂作者家附近人潮變少，和要跟n玩到底，其他看的很模
10/15 11:57, 3F
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10/15 11:57, , 4F
糊
10/15 11:57, 4F
※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 11:57:56
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10/15 11:58, , 5F
推推
10/15 11:58, 5F
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10/15 11:58, , 6F
其實很清楚啊 就是說N社為了防弊已經防到走火入魔了
10/15 11:58, 6F
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10/15 12:00, , 7F
人潮變少這點就夠了阿，遊戲沒人玩是要搞屁喔
10/15 12:00, 7F
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10/15 12:01, , 8F
難怪容易閃退zz
10/15 12:01, 8F
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10/15 12:01, , 9F
坐看哪一邊會被打臉
10/15 12:01, 9F
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10/15 12:02, , 10F
現在玩的人根本不到一個月前的10%吧
10/15 12:02, 10F
※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 12:04:26
噓
10/15 12:02, , 11F
小偷偷不到東西時還會怪別人家的門太堅固不好破呢
10/15 12:02, 11F
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10/15 12:03, , 12F
該抓的還是抓不到，然後一般玩家手機gg
10/15 12:03, 12F
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10/15 12:04, , 13F
safetynet弄在遊戲真的很智障
10/15 12:04, 13F
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10/15 12:04, , 14F
這遊戲目前為止的熱度跟營收根本就是雷達撐起來的
10/15 12:04, 14F
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10/15 12:05, , 15F
N社真的懂做遊戲嗎? N社把PM交給N社真的好嗎?
10/15 12:05, 15F
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10/15 12:06, , 16F
越弄越耗電真的很白痴
10/15 12:06, 16F
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10/15 12:07, , 17F
真的變少 這週開始塔在上班時間佔可以佔超過幾小時（
10/15 12:07, 17F
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10/15 12:07, , 18F
以前是幾分鐘）然後家附近的熱點人變少很多
10/15 12:07, 18F
※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 12:08:34
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10/15 12:07, , 19F
最釜底抽薪的方法就是官方自己做出好用的雷達啊..防
10/15 12:07, 19F
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10/15 12:07, , 20F
備別人用雷達，然後sighting還是跟大便一樣根本顆顆
10/15 12:07, 20F
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10/15 12:07, , 21F
我覺得已經來不及了
10/15 12:07, 21F
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10/15 12:08, , 22F
外掛還講的很正義
10/15 12:08, 22F
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10/15 12:08, , 23F
我在台北市區根本不想拿出來玩 只有自己一個人玩超像怪胎
10/15 12:08, 23F
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10/15 12:08, , 24F
難怪好lag
10/15 12:08, 24F
※ 編輯: maverickEd (118.167.40.200), 10/15/2016 12:09:25
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10/15 12:09, , 25F
推 不過這篇很可能會引來違反板規的討論喔 請小心
10/15 12:09, 25F
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10/15 12:10, , 26F
難怪我0.37以後 開遊戲走個5分鐘就卡到想摔手機
10/15 12:10, 26F
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10/15 12:10, , 27F
原來不是錯覺
10/15 12:10, 27F
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10/15 12:10, , 28F
搞到沒人要玩
10/15 12:10, 28F
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10/15 12:10, , 29F
怎麼有種即視感，國慘PCGame好像也有搞過
10/15 12:10, 29F
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10/15 12:10, , 30F
外掛絕對不正義但有些點講的不無道理 這遊戲需要多人玩
10/15 12:10, 30F
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10/15 12:11, , 31F
這篇內文是討論遊戲相關 合格 但推文注意不要踩線
10/15 12:11, 31F
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10/15 12:11, , 32F
快把sighting改改吧
10/15 12:11, 32F
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10/15 12:12, , 33F
離開的順序大概是 國高中生（無法亂跑）-正常上班族（
10/15 12:12, 33F
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10/15 12:12, , 34F
沒有時間）-阿伯阿桑 現在我大部分只看到阿伯阿桑在
10/15 12:12, 34F
還有 737 則推文
還有 8 段內文
推
10/16 02:14, , 772F
路上玩家真的很少,會玩的都在蹲點
10/16 02:14, 772F
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10/16 02:17, , 773F
前幾天飛人都到德國幫忙在地鄉民拆高塔，飛人有很多種
10/16 02:17, 773F
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10/16 02:17, , 774F
XDDD
10/16 02:17, 774F
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10/16 02:21, , 775F
人潮少一半以上 飛入照飛 鎖雷真的沒意義
10/16 02:21, 775F
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10/16 02:21, , 776F
人啦不是入
10/16 02:21, 776F
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10/16 06:33, , 777F
塞挺真的很廢
10/16 06:33, 777F
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10/16 06:47, , 778F
整篇也沒講到哪些運算拖垮效能
10/16 06:47, 778F
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10/16 07:06, , 779F
樓上的中文理解能力...
10/16 07:06, 779F
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10/16 08:41, , 780F
原來登入遊戲變久不是錯覺XD
10/16 08:41, 780F
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10/16 08:48, , 781F
遊戲閃退=玩家閃退
10/16 08:48, 781F
推
10/16 09:00, , 782F
心力花在改程式整玩家而不是增加內容除蟲，這種公司還護航
10/16 09:00, 782F
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10/16 09:00, , 783F
的下去XD
10/16 09:00, 783F
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10/16 09:01, , 784F
光一個遊戲音效會被任何一個手機系統音吃掉的bug就沒修過
10/16 09:01, 784F
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10/16 09:16, , 785F
難怪我在丟曲球的時候覺得球轉很慢…
10/16 09:16, 785F
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10/16 09:44, , 786F
驚喜XDDD 糞塞停在我十字定位時重新掃描讓右下角全空白超
10/16 09:44, 786F
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10/16 09:44, , 787F
級驚喜的
10/16 09:44, 787F
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10/16 09:45, , 788F
那時我連腦袋都驚喜的一片空白了
10/16 09:45, 788F
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10/16 09:48, , 789F
有點虛當聲勢的感覺,等破解出雷達再給推
10/16 09:48, 789F
推
10/16 10:02, , 790F
已經剩最後一個hash，應該就是這一兩天的事了，雷達要復
10/16 10:02, 790F
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10/16 10:02, , 791F
活了
10/16 10:02, 791F
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10/16 10:07, , 792F
樓上怎看出來的@_@
10/16 10:07, 792F
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10/16 10:13, , 793F
開發者自己講的呀
10/16 10:13, 793F
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10/16 10:18, , 794F
最能靠sighting 抓怪的應該是飛人吧，完全不用考慮
10/16 10:18, 794F
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10/16 10:18, , 795F
路況..
10/16 10:18, 795F
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10/16 11:47, , 796F
別消遣我的中文理解能力阿 他沒講哪類型的運算被改
10/16 11:47, 796F
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10/16 11:47, , 797F
也沒舉證原始碼 完全就是說空話阿
10/16 11:47, 797F
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10/16 11:48, , 798F
即便沒有開發商的原始碼 逆向出來的東西也可以公布阿
10/16 11:48, 798F
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10/16 11:49, , 799F
混淆代碼其實是常見的保護智慧財產的手法
10/16 11:49, 799F
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10/16 11:49, , 800F
被這篇文章講的十惡不赦一樣
10/16 11:49, 800F
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10/16 11:58, , 801F
SafetyNet的作用也跟這篇文章講的不一樣 開發者網頁
10/16 11:58, 801F
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10/16 11:58, , 802F
上就寫得很清楚
10/16 11:58, 802F
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10/16 12:06, , 803F
他又不是單純批評obfuscation存在是一種十惡不赦
10/16 12:06, 803F
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10/16 12:08, , 804F
你要更多detail才肯信的話就直接連絡他吧
10/16 12:08, 804F
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10/16 12:24, , 805F
推
10/16 12:24, 805F
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10/16 14:06, , 806F
安迪哥的說法有點牽點呀
10/16 14:06, 806F
噓
10/17 05:20, , 807F
還在玩的都是_____
10/17 05:20, 807F
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10/17 13:53, , 808F
靠雷達才有人玩的遊戲，那些說雷達外掛的人的頭腦大概
10/17 13:53, 808F
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10/17 13:53, , 809F
跟N社一樣_______
10/17 13:53, 809F
噓
10/18 00:56, , 810F
外掛破解還找其他玩家幫坦 很會。
10/18 00:56, 810F
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10/18 05:04, , 811F
XDD
10/18 05:04, 811F
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