[心得] Artosis對蟲群之心的發言
看板StarCraft (星海爭霸2 - SC2)作者kira925 (1 2 3 4 疾風炭)時間13年前 (2012/10/21 10:14)推噓51(52推 1噓 75→)留言128則, 42人參與討論串1/1
或許讓這位名賽評來做個註腳是個不錯的回顧
而且也沒人敢說看過比他更多最高水平比賽吧XD
http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/33810525615/sigh
“Brood War changed StarCraft 1 completely. HotS is a glorified patch.”
BW從根本改變了SC1 蟲群之心只是個精緻的Patch
Lets talk specifically about PvT for a moment. PvT is the match up for
Protoss right now which is evolving the least slowly. While there are some
clever things going on, overall you will play a macro based Colossus style
with a couple of Forges at the top level. Not quite as much innovation going
on there as in the other Protoss match-ups at the moment.
首先來談談PvT吧。 目前來說PvT是神族戰術演進最慢的一個組合。雖然有些很
精妙的小改變正在進行中，整體上還是建立在巨像組合配合高攻防打法。和其他
對戰組合所擁有的演進速度相比並沒有太大改變。
When HotS came out, there was this unit called the WarHound in it. Oh god, it
was craziness. This WarHound unit, it KILLED mechanical Protoss units,
especially in the early game! When I logged on, it didn’t take me long to
figure out that all my old Robotics openings didn’t work anymore. I played a
whole bunch, and started coming up with clever openings to adapt to this new
unit. I’m fairly certain that PvT was going to now switch over to StarGate
tech as the default opener. Totally cool, especially since the early game
defense given to you by the Mothership Core allowed you to do such a thing
without dying. Later into the game, I was experimenting with all sorts of
transitions against these new armies I was facing in PvT. Eventually, there
was some pretty sturdy early triple Robotics builds after StarGate openings,
totally new stuff, which was working the best. Really awesome and exciting
time.
蟲群之心剛出來的時候，有個全新的單位叫做戰犬。歐，天啊，這傢伙根本就
鬼神，這個叫戰犬的傢伙，把神族的單位虐殺光了，特別是各種早期一波!我
自己登錄進HoTS試玩的時候，我很快就發現我之前所有機械製造廠為基礎的開局
再也毫無用處。我接著又多玩了一段時間，然後開始想到一些聰明的開局來適應
這個新單位。我很確定接下來的PvT將會轉向由星際之門科技開局作為標準開局。
這太酷了，特別是母艦核心讓你在前期可以很穩定的度過前期的空窗期。接下來
我開始各種實驗要如何去面對各種我可能在PvT裡面遇到的兵力轉型。最後我找出
一些還不錯的單星際之門接三機械製造廠開局，完全嶄新的組合，而且效果超讚。
非常非常了不起而且開心的一刻。
Sadly, the WarHound’s exact stats were not exactly where they should
theoretically be at. Of course, that seems reasonable, right? It was still
early on in the beta, and there are lots of factors to take into account to
tweak a unit just right. Didn’t matter. The community went into an uproar
about how terrible the WarHound was, how imbalanced it was, and how it would
single handedly destroy HotS and SC2.
很可惜的是，戰犬所展現出來的跟他們理論上的樣子不完全一樣。當然，這很合理，
因為還處於BETA的早期狀態。還有很多因素必須要考慮進去來進行調整，這完全
沒關係的。但是社群們怒吼著戰犬有多糟糕，有多IMBA，而且如何能以一己之力毀滅
蟲群之心跟星海爭霸二。
Blizzard removed the WarHound. PvT went back much closer to normal. Now
people are extremely upset that the patch is lacking and not fun. That it
doesn’t change anything.
BZ把戰犬砍掉了。PvT又回到那個老樣子。現在人們又開始抱怨沒有新東西而且無聊，
最終什麼都沒有改變。
“Brood War completely changed StarCraft 1.”
BW完全改變了SC1
Let’s talk a bit about what Brood War actually did.
我們來回顧BW到底做了什麼吧。
StarCraft 1 Vanilla (without Brood War) is a completely imbalanced game.
Disgustingly imbalanced. Zerg just straight up wins. With no medics and no
Goliath Range, Terran is screwed. With no Corsairs (not to mention DTs),
Protoss is screwed as well.
無印的星海爭霸是一個完全不平衡的遊戲，超噁心的不平衡。蟲族隨便都能贏，
沒有小護士跟巨人射程，人族根本就垃圾。沒有海盜(還有隱刀)，神族也一樣是
垃圾。
We didn’t know this back then. People were absolutely terrible at RTS games
back then. Micro and Macro were just ideas. Timings, build orders, cost
efficiency…. all completely new and unmapped. Anyways, that stuff doesn’t
really matter either, because the tools simply were not there to make SC1
Vanilla balanced in the long term.
那個時候我們根本就不知道這些，根本沒人會打RTS。操作跟大局觀根本還停留在
紙上作業，時間點，建造順序，資源利用的效率，這些根本就是嶄新而且毫無概念
的理論。不管怎樣，這些都不重要，因為你可以用的工具根本不夠讓無印的SC1達到
平衡。
Brood War came in, and somehow gave us a set of units, that over time, would
end up allowing the game to be balanced. Did these units change the game?
Yes, of course. The DT, the Medic, and the Lurker were frightening new units
who made so many things different. But really, everything was becoming
different all the time, because we were all still learning how to play RTS
games properly.
BW橫空出世，給了我們一組新單位，最終讓我們有了個平衡的遊戲。這些單位
改變了遊戲?當然，隱刀、小護士、遁地獸都是非常令人震懾的新單位，讓很多
事情都變得不一樣了。但真的，很多的事情都因為時間推進而改變，因為我們
還是在學習怎麼把RTS玩好。
Now remember a few paragraphs before how I said that Brood War gave us the
units which allowed the game to be balanced in the future? Here’s one
specific example of HotS doing this: The Tempest. Right now, super late game
PvZ is a problem. Take a look at Seed vs Symbol from the recent GSL games, or
Creator vs Curious from the recent WCS Asia Finals, to get an idea of
something that is likely to become a big problem over time. Carriers do not
cut it in SC2. They are a huge sink of resources, and in the mined out map
game, are not efficient enough. The Tempest gives us a real answer to work
with, costing nothing to engage away from the static defense and Infestors
which are becoming so standard in the later game. Blizzard is giving us a
tool to have balance in this unit. Yet many people hate the unit, and
complain about it constantly.
我在前面幾段講到BW透過加入新單位來讓整個遊戲在未來變得平衡。在蟲群之心
也有個類似的例子:暴風艦。目前，在超晚期的PvZ是有問題的。 Seed vs Symbol
最近在GSL的比賽，Creator vs Curious 在 WCS Asia 總決賽的的比賽，你可以
觀察到有些東西真的是出了大問題了。航母在SC2並沒有發揮它該有的功能，他
們吃掉非常大量的資源，而在礦挖完的比賽中根本就不夠有效率。暴風艦給了我
們一個可以嘗試的答案，讓你可以在靜態防守與後期必出的感染蟲威脅之外進行
攻擊。BZ給了我們一個能可能達成平衡的單位，但是人們討厭他，而且又開始
持續對他進行抱怨。
“Something about the way races are supposed to be, and how Protoss is a mere
shadow of its former self”
關於各個種族應該有的樣子，以及神族籠罩在自己的陰影下
I’ve seen arguments and threads (especially when people were unhappy with
the power of Protoss in early HotS) about Protoss not being the race with big
heavy hitters like its supposed to be. WHAT? If you look at SC1, Terran was
the least mobile race, normally sitting around turtling nonstop, getting an
insanely good mech army up to fight against itself or Protoss. Hell, even
sometimes against Zerg. And even against Zerg, the overall standard was to
wait for a Science Vessel and 3 Tanks before really doing very much. Yet
people welcomed moving around the map all game with Marines and Marauders.
The Marauder has nothing to do with the “flavor” of what Terran was in SC1.
我看過各式各樣爭論跟討論神族根本就不是那個以往重拳出擊的種族，特別是
大家都對神族在HoTS早期的無力感到不爽。這又怎樣?如果你回顧SC1，人族擁
有最低機動性的部隊，通常都必須要慫起來搞猥瑣，憋出一個200的高攻防鋼鐵
洪流來對抗另一個人族或者神族，以及，也要這樣子打蟲族，你推出的標準
至少是要等到科學球以及三坦克你才能夠真的做些什麼。但是人們現在對於可以
用槍兵跟光頭可以在地圖各種遊走非常開心，光頭根本就毫無人族在SC1的樣子。
StarCraft 2’s future
SC2的未來
People need to stop bandwagoning and jumping to conclusions. SC1 was 1 or 2
years old when BW was released. We now have almost 14 years of RTS experience
to work with. We are so much further ahead of where StarCraft 1 was when
Brood War was released in terms of understanding how to play RTS games, that
the only way to see game changing units is to make them insanely good like
the WarHound.
大家必須要停止這種選邊站然後直接跳到結論的爭吵。在BW上市之前，無印 SC1 已經
是賣了一年到兩年的老遊戲了。我們現在已經有了將近14年的RTS歷史可以參考，我們
已經比SC1或者BW販售的時候對於RTS更清楚該怎麼玩RTS遊戲了，唯一能讓遊戲大幅改變
的方法就是要做出一些好的很誇張的單位，就像是戰犬一樣。
StarCraft 2 is in an amazing spot right now. It’s already entering that
phase that SC1 was in for the past several years, where each week or two
there are some slight variations to builds coming out, both because we are
learning how to play better, and because of the metagame shifting.
SC2現在正處於一個非常好的位置。他已經進入了SC1在過去幾年的階段，每幾個禮拜
都會有些非常細微的變化出現，因為我們知道怎樣玩得更好以及遊戲的局勢改變。
I am still very much looking forward to the actual release of HotS, so that
we can watch these new units get added into top level play, and watch the
ways they will effect the movements of the metagame.
我非常期待HoTS的正式釋出，所以我們可以觀察這些新單位能夠在最頂級的遊戲中
給我們些什麼新的變化，而且注意他們會如何去改變遊戲的整體情勢。
I listened to people decreeing the end of SC1 from 2002 until 2010 (when the
SC2 Beta was finally released). They were all wrong, and anyone talking about
it now is wrong too. SC2 is the best damn game in the world. Its more
beautiful and complex than anything else being played at the moment. There is
absolutely no RTS game on the horizon which could possibly knock it off its
pedestal.
我聽過很多人們悲鳴SC1從2002到2010的時代終結。他們都錯了，而且任何人現在還在
抱持這種觀點也是錯的。SC2是目前全世界最棒的遊戲。他比目前所有的遊戲還要精巧
而且複雜，絕對沒有其他RTS在可見的未來可以把它從目前的王座踢下來。
----
最後一段大概會被噓吧XDD
--
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◆ From: 140.113.49.86
順便來個無關的預告: TotalBiscuit在TL論壇預告了
這個星期天Crank跟MMA會對包嫂做出正式的回應 而且是韓文跟英文都有的正式回應
而且他非常非常的挺Crank
※ 編輯: kira925 來自: 140.113.49.86 (10/21 10:18)
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