[SC２] Blizzcast EP4

看板StarCraft (星海爭霸2 - SC2)作者Kendai (Carrier has Arrived!)時間16年前 (2009/02/07 05:06)推噓10(10推 0噓 3→)

留言13則, 11人參與討論串1/1

Community Q&A 2 Mike Heiberg (Senior Game Designer on StarCraft II), David Kim (Associate Game Balance Designer on StarCraft II) [ top ] 麥克海柏格 (星海爭霸二資深遊戲設計師) 金大衛 (星海爭霸二遊戲平衡設計助手) (註: 金應該是Blizz裡面負責電子競技的人, 包括Blizzcon, WWI比賽選手邀請和項目) Bornakk: Up next we have some Starcraft II questions, to help answer them in their first appearance on BlizzCast we our Associate Game Balance Designer David Kim and one of our Senior Game Designers Mike Heiberg here to help us. Welcome to BlizzCast guys! 波納克: 接下來我們有些星海爭霸二的問題。我們邀請到第一次來上Blizzcast的遊戲平衡設計助手大衛，以及我們的資深遊戲設計師麥克來協助我們回答問題。歡迎來到BlizzCast! Mike Heiberg: Thank you. David Kim: Thanks. [ 47:04 ] 麥克: 謝謝你。大衛: 謝謝 Bornakk: The first question is from D10 at teamliquid.net – What is the reason for the decreased mineral collection by workers? (It goes from 8 to 6 per round.) Is it better worker A.I. or a more economy heavy game maybe? 波納克: 第一個問題是來自液態戰隊的D10發問的 - 把工兵每次採集礦物的數量減少是為了甚麼? (目前採集量從8減少到6)是因為工兵的人工智慧設計，或者是要加重經濟影響? Mike Heiberg: The harvest rates for classic and Starcraft II are basically the same - 麥克: 採集速率在星海爭霸與星海爭霸二裡基本上是一樣的 - David Kim: It feels faster though, the minerals anyway. 大衛: 感覺起來好像比較快，我指的是礦物。 Mike Heiberg: It feels faster at certain points, certainly more so mid to late game but it kind of depends on the race and the expansions and stuff. I think that’s a matter of when you cap out on three per mineral field, just how much income you get versus – like in Starcraft a lot of times you get up to like two per mineral field and you couldn’t quite tell if you were capped out or not because there’s a lot of guys moving around and a lot of times you have an empty mineral field for a few seconds here and there. 麥克: 某些情況下感覺好像比較快，尤其是中後期的遊戲。但事實上還是要看你的種族，分基地或是其他東西。我想這個問題是出在於，當你每個水晶礦分配三個工兵，也就是相同的收入，比較於星海爭霸裡面你每個晶礦會放兩個工兵。你不太能很精準的看出來你的工兵數量是否足夠，因為這些工兵會跑來跑去，而且常常發生隨機晶礦沒人採集的情況。 When we did the original Starcraft harvesting numbers they were just pulling back way too much minerals because the units path so much better and they don’t do the strange harvesting A.I. that classic Starcraft did. But yeah, that’s why when we put in the original numbers they were harvesting way too fast and we had to take it down a notch. We first tried – we tried a lot of things – we tried bringing their movement speed down, then we had a lot of problems, with an SCV moves slower that means you can’t scout as quickly right, you can’t run away from certain threats, you can’t like dance around and avoid a zealot anymore. You know same thing with some of the other slower units but we tried other things like the acceleration, tweaking how fast they accelerate and decelerate, that got really tricky with how good the unit feels when you’re moving him around. So then we tried how much time they spend at the mineral field, which is actually still in there, right now a unit will bring back 6 per trip instead of 8, but at the same time he will spend a little less time at the mineral field. So overall the amount of time that he spends going back and forth he comes out to about the same harvesting rate as a single SCV in the original Starcraft. 當我們設定採集數量跟星海爭霸相同時，他們會帶回來過多的礦物。因為現在單位路徑已經大幅地改善，工兵們也不會像星海爭霸一樣，做出很奇怪的採集模式。但這的確讓我們在工兵使用跟原來一樣的採集數量時，他們挖得太快也太多了，所以我們必須向下微調。我們第一次嘗試修改時 - 我們試過許多方法 - 試著降低他們的移動速度，不過這製造了更多問題，當你的SCV 移動速度變慢了，代表你沒法快速的出去偵查，也不能逃離某些危機，譬如說透過微操跳舞閃避狂戰士。你知道其他的慢速單位也有這個問題，但我們試著用其他方法，例如加速功能，改變他們起步的速度以及煞車的距離。這邊的確頗為複雜，影響到當你重新移動這個單位時的手感。然後我們試著改變他們採礦的所需時間，也就是目前這個模式。現在工兵每趟帶回來的晶曠是6而非以前的8。所以整體來看，包括他來回的時間與帶回來的數量，是跟在星海爭霸裡單一SCV的採集速率相同的。 Overall we’re trying to make the feel of the harvesting about the same as it was in classic Starcraft where you really have to think about how much money you have and the minerals-gas ratio and what you can afford to do. How do you think it’s feeling for the whole? [ 47:20 ] 整體來說我們試著讓採集頻率跟星海爭霸是一樣的，這樣你也能確實知道你有多少金錢，以及晶礦 -瓦斯比例，還有你接下來能發展甚麼。你覺得這個對整體遊戲影響如何? Bornakk: Yeah- does this affect overall units and how they move? I’ve heard the pathing for StarCraft II has been much improved since the original StarCraft. 波納克: 是的- 這會影響到所有的單位，以及他們的移動模式嗎? 我聽說星海爭霸二裡的移動路徑比起原本星海爭霸有大幅度的改善。 David Kim: Okay the pathing is actually pretty interesting because a lot of the tier 1 units, especially the zerglings and the zealots perform a lot better because they can get into places easier. 大衛: 好的，路徑的確是個很有趣的問題，因為許多一級兵種，尤其是異形蟲和狂戰士的效率更好，因為他們能更輕鬆地抵達定位。 Mike Heiberg: We have tried to tweak some of the interaction of some of the earlier units with respect to pathing and create a lot of interesting gameplay with not just the types of units that you’re mashing together but the ways that they’re meeting each other on the battlefield. Where in classic Starcraft you could throw a couple zealots on your choke and zerglings coming in would have a hard time getting past them just because you can only fit so many zerglings up against the zealots right? Now you have a similar thing but at the same time out in the field if you have zealots versus zerglings the zealots have trouble because the zerglings wrap around them, start devouring them. Sometimes it helps to even back up your zealots against a wall or a cliff edge and reduce the amount of wrap around that the zerglings can pull off. 麥克: 我們試著改變某些早期單位的相互作用，並且期待路徑修正能讓遊戲內容更加有變化。不只是在出擊時的兵種搭配，而是你在戰場上遭遇時所有可能發生的情況。在原始星海爭霸裡你可以指派一對狂戰士去擋住來襲的異形蟲，異形蟲很難通過他們，因為每隻狂戰士都能以一檔百。現在你有一個類似的情況，但把戰場轉到平原上面，同樣是狂戰士對抗異形蟲，狂戰士就陷入了大麻煩。因為異形蟲可以包抄，並且慢慢地蠶食他們。有時候你把狂戰士拉到牆角或是峭壁旁邊會有幫助，減少他們被異形蟲包圍的數量。 David Kim: Yeah and the wrap around itself is a little easier to pull off I guess because the A.I. takes care of some of that for you but you do still need the micro if you want to get the maximum out of your melee units. 大衛: 是的，現在包圍的操作比拉開簡單一點，我想是因為人工智慧有插手幫忙，但你仍是需要微操作來讓你的近戰單位發揮最大輸出。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah the pathing of zerglings, will instead of just going around and finding some place they can fit on the other side of the zealot they’ll actually try and nudge up a little closer to the other zerglings so they can fit more of them in which is just kind of something that we got with the updated pathing. 麥克: 關於異形蟲的路徑，從以前四處遊走並且找尋一個能攻擊到狂戰士的角度，進化成他們會稍微貼近另一隻異形蟲，讓他們能在小區域裡塞進更多隻異形蟲。 David Kim: We also have the difference in deceleration. In our game the unit knows when it’s going to stop so it starts decelerating at the exact right moment so that it stops at the exact spot that it’s ordered to go to. Whereas in the original it didn’t check as frequently so even if you told it to go somewhere it might stop a half an inch past it or a half an inch before it. 大衛: 我們也在煞車方式做出了改變。在我們的遊戲裡單位知道他們甚麼時候該停下來，所以他們會在適當的時間開始減速，直到停在他們被確切命令的位置。這在原始星海爭霸裡並沒有去時常檢查路徑，所以你叫他們去某個地方，他們可能會提早停下來，或是跑過那個目標一點點。 Mike Heiberg: Right, a lot of times you’d be floating your guardians in to take out some spore colony or something and they’d float a little too close and you’d be like “Whoa!” and you’d have to back a couple of them out. They’re a little more intelligent now about not floating directly into danger when they don’t have to. 麥克: 的確，很多時候你必須操控你的守望者來摧毀對空胞子群或甚麼的，然而有時他們會靠的太近，你就會很幹，必須把其中一兩隻往後拉開。現在他們比以往稍為聰明一點，不再會亂飄，靠近他們不必要遭受的危險之中。 David Kim: So all in all you can give more precise orders and the units will do exactly what you want to instead of just doing whatever they wanted. 大衛: 所以總歸來講你可以給他們更精準的命令，單位也會忠實的去執行，而不是隨意作著他們想幹的事情。 Bornakk: It will be a little more consistent? 波納克: 他們會變得更合群了? David Kim: Yeah it will be more consistent. 大衛: 是的，沒有討厭的死小孩了。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah for a game like Starcraft we really want a lot of consistency in how units behave when you tell them to do something because you know this is a game that we hope to be played at a very pro level where people want very precise control over everything that their units are doing. I tell a guy to go there he should go exactly there, I tell a guy to attack over there, he should attack to exactly that point and not roughly what I was telling him to do. So basically trying to fine tune the behavior that you get what you expect out of the unit when you tell him to do something is definitely one of our goals. [ 50:03 ] 麥克: 像星海爭霸這樣的遊戲，我們真的希望單位都有一致的行動，你叫他們做甚麼就做甚麼。因為你知道我們希望這個遊戲能打進相當職業水準的層次，玩家希望對於每樣事物和他們要求單位的動作都要有精準的操控。我告訴一個傢伙他要去哪邊，他就會一絲不苟地站在那裡；我告訴一個傢伙去攻擊那邊，他應該徹底地去攻擊那個點，而不是跟大概也許可能的打混阿兵哥一樣。基本上我們在細微的調整這些單位行為，讓你下了一個命令之後，能得到預期的結果。這也絕對是我們的目標之一。 Bornakk: How do the three races feel right now in terms of their resource consumptions in relation to the more popular strategies seen here at Blizzard? 波納克: 那麼三個種族各自的資源消耗情況，以及各項戰術的相關性，Blizz是怎麼看的? David Kim: Resource-wise the three races feel pretty similar. Terrans usually have to mix in mineral-only units such as marines or jackals with their army and with Zerg you can do the same sort of stuff you could do in the original just like fast mutalisks, or fast lurkers, but on top of that we also have interesting strategies, like surprise strategies, such as going fast banelings. 大衛: 從資源運用來看三個種族跟以往類似。人類通常需要混編專吃晶曠的單位，例如陸戰隊或是豺狼，配合他們其他的軍隊；而異形則是跟以往差不多，你可以打速飛螳，直升遁地獸。但除此之外我們也有些有趣的新戰術，讓人措手不及的突襲，譬如速柏油蟲等。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah and you know the other races like reapers and banshees and whatnot, but yeah it’s really a tough decision in the early game to choose how you want to spend your gas, do you want to go to one of the rush strategies? Do you want to tech up to the higher stuff that’s more stable? Or do you want to focus on upgrades and pushing with low tier units? Until you expand you really have to choose what kind of options you want to pick from. 麥克: 你知道其他的種族，例如死神或是女妖式以及諸如此類的，在遊戲初期你的確很難決定要怎麼運用你的氣礦，你是想要執行一次快攻策略呢? 或是升級科技直到高接兵種打穩呢? 或是你想要專注在提升攻防，利用低階單位推進戰線呢? 直到你開礦之前你都必須要審視你目前有的選擇。 David Kim: And also because of that, scouting becomes extremely important because there are more options for each player. 大衛: 就因如此，偵查變得極端重要，也因每個玩家現在有更多的選擇。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah when you have so many different options to choose from and more raiding options with things like reapers and banshees – scouting, you really have to get out there and see what they’re doing and how vulnerable they are to different strategies and different tactics. [ 53:36 ] 麥克: 當你有許多不同的發展路線，以及更多的游擊單位例如死神和女妖式時 - 偵查，你真的必須去敵方陣地看看他們的發展，發掘他們在不同戰略戰術下的弱點。 Bornakk: This next question comes from inbroodwar.de – The new infest and corrupt abilities are all time limited. Is there any plan for a spell that changes the owner of the unit permanently like the old Dark Archon mind control? 波納克: 下一個問題來自硬怒火點德國 - 新的感染和腐化能力都有時間限制。有沒有計畫讓一個技能可以永久地改變某單位的操控玩家，如同暗影破壞能的心靈控制? Mike Heiberg: Well when we were doing the classic Starcraft mind control we were finding that it actually resulted in some pretty big swings in balance where basically you mind control a large unit, say a Battlecruiser, and now the difference in power from the two different armies is like two Battlecruisers because he lost one and you gained one. So seeing as in Starcraft II we have a few more of those high impact units, we have Colossi, we have Motherships, and Queens, that’s a very scary type of spell to be still bringing into the game, I mean we have more opportunities for those large swings in balance. 麥克: 當我們在做原始星海爭霸時，我們發現心靈控制在平衡上面有很大的影響。基本上當你心靈控制一個大單位，拿末日巨獸級大和號來說好了，在雙方的軍力上是造成兩艘大大和號的差距，因為他損失一艘而你得到一艘。所以從星海爭霸二角度來看，我們現在有的高影響力單位更少了，我們有巨神兵，有神族母艦，以及后蟲。他們都有十分可怕的技能，但我們仍然把他加到遊戲裡。也就是說，我們可能會碰到在平衡性上更嚴峻的挑戰。 David Kim: Okay so in Starcraft I the mind control was pretty high tech and difficult to get to so you rarely saw it in actual games. 大衛: 這也是星海爭霸一裡心靈控制是個相當高階的技能，難以研發出來，你也很少在遊戲裡看到他。 Mike Heiberg: It was also pretty difficult to pull off for most people. 麥克: 對於大部分玩家而言也很難施展。 David Kim: So if we were to make it so that it is more accessible in SC2, there would definitely have to be restrictions such as “can’t mind control the Queen.” 大衛: 所以如果我們加入這個，而星海2又比較容易上手，我想免不了會有這種限制例如 "無法心靈控制后蟲。"之類的。 Mike Heiberg: Right and Motherships, you can’t be taking out some of the unique units to each race. 麥克: 母艦也是，你不能就這樣輕鬆解決每族的獨特單位。 David Kim: Yeah and if that’s the case then we’re kind of diverting away from the original Starcraft mind control mechanic which had no restrictions like that. 大衛: 真是這樣的話，我們就必須去改變心靈控制的遊戲設定，不能跟原始星海爭霸一樣沒有限制。 Mike Heiberg: What about infestation? The question actually was talking about... 麥克: 關於感染呢? 這問題的確最近有提過.. Bornakk: Yeah, I mean infestation also was really hard to pull off, but generally speaking wasn’t too big of a thing in most of the games I’ve seen, so what’s the need for that to be time limited? 波納克: 對啊，我指的是要拿掉感染不太可能吧，但在大部分我所看過的遊戲裡又不是甚麼很重要的課題。所以為什麼他需要時間限制? Mike Heiberg: Right, in classic Starcraft infesting someone’s command center was really more of an insult. 麥克: 的確，在原始星海爭霸裡，感染某個玩家的指揮中心比較像是嘲笑他。 David Kim: I guess it’s sort of the same thing because it’s tier 3 right now, and you need the infestor pit as well as the infestation research, which means it won’t be that easy to pull off considering at that point of the game. 大衛: 我想這個情況也差不多，因為他現在是個三級主堡才有的技能，你也需要感染者聚落，並且研發感染，也就是說在遊戲裡你不會這麼輕易能研發出這個技能。 Mike Heiberg: It’s actually a little higher tech but it ends up being a bit easier to pull off than classic Starcraft infestation - off the Queen. You got to get it down to burning then bring in a Queen and at that point it’s like half the time the building dies anyway before you get it off. 麥克: 他的確需要比較高的科技，但事實上還是比原始星海爭霸 - 透過后蟲感染要來得簡單一點。你必須要把建築物打到燒起來，在建築物紅血爆炸前，趕緊拉一隻后蟲過來感染。 David Kim: But the difference is you don’t actually take over the building it just infests it until it’s cleared out or the duration fades, whichever mechanic we decide to go with. 大衛: 但目前的相異處在於，你不需要實際去接管那棟建築物，感染會一直保持直到被清除或是時限終了，這也是我們目前的設計方向。 Mike Heiberg: Right and at the same time you’re not feeding money into it when it’s infested to produce infested marines you’re actually just getting them for free. 邁克: 同時你也不需要投注任何資源在上面，他會自動生產被感染的陸戰隊，炸很大炸不用錢。 David Kim: So it’s definitely more usable and... 大衛: 所以他的確更有用了而且... Mike Heiberg: It’s one of those spells that basically wasn’t seeing much play at all in classic Starcraft except in the weird cases where you were just trying to make someone feel bad for how much you’re owning them. 邁克: 這個技能在原始星海爭霸裡，也是屬於不常見的技能，除非是很特殊的例子。如果你想要讓某位玩家抓狂，並且展示你有多強的話。 Bornakk: Sending a bunch of kamikaze marines at them? 波納克: 派遣一堆神風陸戰隊過去? Mike Heiberg: Yeah, like the, “Oh, I’m going to triple nuke you!” type stuff. 邁克: 是啊，就很像是"喔喔，我要給你核彈三連中出!"之類的。 David Kim: Yeah and for the Corrupter, I guess we decided on what we decided on was because we get the same feel for the mind control but minus all the balance problems that we have to face. 大衛: 關於腐化者，我想我們之所以這樣做是因為，他跟心靈控制很像，但是我們面臨在平衡性上面的問題少很多。 Mike Heiberg: Right. You get that unit sort of on your side but at the same time you’re not grabbing them and moving them around, performing assaults with them. 邁克: 沒錯。你可以掌控那個單位，但同時你不能操控他隨意移動，利用他們展開攻擊。 David Kim: We also like the interaction between the two players. The guy that’s doing the corrupting can actually focus target the low health units to kill them first whereas the opponent can react by either pulling his troops away or just killing the corrupted unit fast depending on how much health the unit is at. 大衛: 我們也喜歡他在兩名玩者之間的互動，所產生的效果。使用腐化能力的玩家可以先集中火力瞄準低生命值的單位，直到對手反應過來，要嗎是拉開他的部隊，或者是先下手幹掉被腐化的單位，端看那個單位還剩下多少生命值。 Mike Heiberg: Right we want to allow those types of little micro decisions where in the middle of the battle: “Should I focus on his guys, his Corrupters? Should I focus on my own corrupted units because I’m not getting them back? Or should I back off and make those basically invalid because there’s nobody nearby for them to be messing with?”. 邁克: 我們想要讓這些細微操控和抉擇出現在戰場上:"我應該集中火力在他的部隊，他的腐化者? 還是我應該集中火力先幹掉我被腐化的單位，因為我不可能再搶回來了? 或是我應該先撤退放棄他們，因為基本上附近我沒有足夠的兵力可以對抗他們?" David Kim: Whereas the original Starcraft mind control mechanic was more all or nothing that doesn’t have as much like immediate player interaction like corrupt does. 大衛: 在原始星海爭霸裡，心靈控制能力的概念是要嗎有，要嗎沒有，這些是沒法像腐化能力一樣，帶給玩家這種直接性的互動。 Mike Heiberg: Yeah it’s basically, “That unit’s mine, now I try and back my Dark Archon off before it dies.” 邁克: 基本上，"那個單位是我的，現在我得拉回我的暗影破壞能，別讓他死了" Bornakk: Well that wraps it up for another episode of BlizzCast. Thanks again to Jon, Russell, Jeff, David, and Mike for spending their time with us today and making it all happen. Be sure to tune into the next episode of Blizzcast as we will be conducting interviews with some of the lead designers for the newly announced Diablo 3. 波納克: 好的，我們會在別的BlizzCast裡來聊這個。再次謝謝你們，瓊，羅素，傑夫，大衛，以及邁克，謝謝你們今天的時間與我們分享。請大家鎖定下次的BlizzCast，我們會帶來更多有關新發表的暗黑破壞神三首席設計師的訪談。 Thanks to our listeners for tuning in and we’ll see you next time! 感謝所有的聽眾，我們下次再見 -- EP5沒有星海爭霸二部分 -- → powerpoint:這次我真的是龜懶趴火 → powerpoint:整個都是火!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! → powerpoint:fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! → powerpoint:die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 推 Mink0417:fire!!!!!!!!!!!!! die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 155.98.80.182 ※ 編輯: Kendai 來自: 155.98.80.182 (02/07 06:02)